The Battle for Hamel Vallee - an AAR

[JonS]

In there I have created a unit folder, in that folder I have the various nationalities, then under nationalities the various divisons (and in the case of the airborne units regiments) In those folders I put unit specific stuff. So for example the 506th PI Regiment folder will have the Mord unit portrait for airborne already renamed (I also use the same portrait and rename to infantry to cover airborne units that sometimes use the infantry image - discovered that in one of the airborne campaigns), the helmet files for the 506th, appropriate uniforms etc. So if I want to play a scenario or campaign I just copy that whole folder into the Z folder and done. Everything should be synched up for the 506th. If I am then going to have a battle with the 29th ID, I just delete the folder and copy in the 29th ID folder.

There used to be a third party app called CM Mod Manager, or sumfink like that. It did a grand job of cutting and pasting things in and out.

But, actually, what I'd like and have been meaning to get around to setting up, is scenario specific or PBEM specific mod sets. So, for example, a PBEM of In The Shadow Of The Hill would have a discrete folder containing mods for all the UK and German units pertinent to that scen. Then when a PBEM comes in, drag and drop (or, rather, copy and drop) that single folder into Z. That way you wouldn't need to go rooting around in multiple folders each time Dropbox gets excited.

[sburke]

Is it true that in either Broadswords or noob's system, once the Op layer decrees that a battle is to be fought, then someone has to create a CMBN map for that Op hex being fought over? This would put the systme out of the reach of most players I think if true.

Are both players playing the operational game also?

Really interesting to see the Op layer control what a player is willing to do on the CMBN battlefield.

Thanks,

Gerry

That is actually a whole other question. Broadsword has gone though the effort to identify the actual battlefield on our map. However I do not believe that is a requirement. You could do one of a couple of things. Use various maps at random selected from the all of the QB and other maps available (even trying to pick ones that are closer to the terrain you actually have in mind.) You could also build a virtual map with preassigned maps at various coordinates and say this map at these coordinates is QB map 80 etc. The HPS games are 1 km square so their details are simple a village, a road, some bocage etc. You could play pretty loose with those.

Part of why I am interested in the TCS system is you could fight a very good campaign battle on a couple very large maps that would have supply and C&C issues included, reinforcement schedules, OBA allotment complications etc with the whole battle being say a 2 -3 day campaign versus a months long monster battle that you have to pick and choose which battles to play out in CM. At TCS scale, the entire battle could be fought at the CM level. Still an idea I am threshing out but it seems feasible and the game rules allow it to be applied to virtually any battle you have a map and OoB for. A perfect opportunity to use the maps from some of the CW campaigns which I understand one at least of is run off a very large master map. You take a screenshot of that and use that as the master map for OP sheet planning and you are off and running. Until someone makes that available, Broadsword has graciously loaded the base map for this campaign up to the repository. It needs a lot added, but the base elevations, roads etc are in. I am playing around with that now to try and create a mini campaign for Lorraine (then I don't have to put in all those hedgerows )

In our battle, Broadsword is creating the OP layer and by definition knows the entire OoB. That is fine with me as the American intelligence from airborne spotting and Ultra was far beyond what intelligence the Germans had access to. I think therefore it actually simulates pretty well the disparate situations.

If my thinking on the TCS games is accurate, the issue of battlefield intelligence is partly remedied by the fact that the C&C system may force you to fight under unfavorable conditions in the hope that you have reserves coming only to find out they did not get their orders in time and now the battle is going to run another 20 minutes before you can expect to see them.

there are probably dozens of ways to do this using the resources at hand, Noob's and Broadsword's are simply ones that have been driven by people with a very strong determination to have this experience.

Broadsword has another project to see about trying to use the Panzergrenadier system to generate a campaign that also looks really promising.

[sburke]

There used to be a third party app called CM Mod Manager, or sumfink like that. It did a grand job of cutting and pasting things in and out.

But, actually, what I'd like and have been meaning to get around to setting up, is scenario specific or PBEM specific mod sets. So, for example, a PBEM of In The Shadow Of The Hill would have a discrete folder containing mods for all the UK and German units pertinent to that scen. Then when a PBEM comes in, drag and drop (or, rather, copy and drop) that single folder into Z. That way you wouldn't need to go rooting around in multiple folders each time Dropbox gets excited.

Yeah that would be nice. I have a folder all set for if I ever get working on the Screaming Eagles campaign, but I suspect the MG module is still a bit of a ways off (oh please oh please be the big announcement).

[GerryCMBB]

By TCS do you mean Tactical Combat Series by MMP/Gamers?

Thanks for the interesting reply.

Gerry

...

Part of why I am interested in the TCS system is you could fight a very good campaign battle on a couple very large maps that would have supply and C&C issues included, reinforcement schedules, OBA allotment complications etc with the whole battle being say a 2 -3 day campaign versus a months long monster battle that you have to pick and choose which battles to play out in CM. At TCS scale, the entire battle could be fought at the CM level. Still an idea I am threshing out but it seems feasible and the game rules allow it to be applied to virtually any battle you have a map and OoB for. ...

[A Canadian Cat]

There used to be a third party app called CM Mod Manager, or sumfink like that. It did a grand job of cutting and pasting things in and out.

<good ideas snipped>

I found the Generic Mod Enabler from Jones soft but I tried it out once to see if it worked. But I went looking for where I got it but the web site is not more and I cannot remember where I picked it up.

Does any one know if it is official still supported?

[ridethe415]

If my thinking on the TCS games is accurate, the issue of battlefield intelligence is partly remedied by the fact that the C&C system may force you to fight under unfavorable conditions in the hope that you have reserves coming only to find out they did not get their orders in time and now the battle is going to run another 20 minutes before you can expect to see them.

Then my follow up question is how do you determine how each side's units are populated. I realize the TCS system will provide full step half step, etc, but how do you translate that data into 1st platoon, L Co has x men, etc?

[sburke]

By TCS do you mean Tactical Combat Series by MMP/Gamers?

Thanks for the interesting reply.

Gerry

Exactly. I posted a map for a good part of the Obj Schmidt battle based on the Gamers map, but you really have to want to get beat over the head a lot to play that (As the Americans anyway). Screaming Eagles covers an area the equivalent of 4 4x4 km CM maps. A bit much to recreate, but the actual battle areas can probably be covered in half that.

Their rules are pretty simple. You have to draw up an op sheet detailing your orders until you can implement a different op sheet. There are a lot of variables that go into when you can implement a new one with the primary factor being time. (also including is it a battalion level plan, the idea being you would have more staff to pull the plan together, whether the unit has been under fire, quality of the unit etc) As long as you adhere to the intent of your orders, it can create some real difficulty. As an example a company has an order to reinforce x position and on the way there you find you really need them at y. Sorry, you need a new op sheet for that. Did you have it prepared? Are you able to implement it? No? Oh well your guys are headed to the wrong place until you can get those orders in place. Okay you did it, they are now marching to y. Oh crap that was a feint and I really did need them at obj x.

It doesn't require a huge amount of FOW because neither of you knows what Op plans they will need nor whether they will actually be available when you need them. What it does require is honesty. You follow your opsheets regardless of how bad you know the situation is getting.

The idea goes something like this. You have on map all the units that could conceivably be brought into play within the 4 hour window possible in CM. Depending on your op sheet roll you may or may not be able to actually use those units. On a 4x4 map a battalion size unit can disappear pretty fast. The battle for this AAR was on a 1x1 map. Figure you could have something 16x this size. Not sure what that will do to file size or how smoothly it would run, but the scale is there and 4 hours is an eternity in this game. Our battle was 75 minutes long and we beat the hell out of both our battalions.

[sburke]

Then my follow up question is how do you determine how each side's units are populated. I realize the TCS system will provide full step half step, etc, but how do you translate that data into 1st platoon, L Co has x men, etc?

Using Screaming Eagles as an example again, they would start as CM companies/platoons. (actually probably full Battalions) I would track them only in CM, no need to apply results to the op layers as no fighting would be done at the op layer. That is the hardest part for both Noob and Broadsword. You can edit HPS Orders of battle to be more granular, but you still have 1x1 hexes and turns to translate between CM and HPS, plus logistics etc. It is interesting as you see your battle as part of a much much larger scale. With that however comes the issue of factoring in replacements etc. Noob has come up with some rules to cover that which he noted. At TCS scale, there really aren't going to be many replacements coming in for a day or two of combat.

TCS level though, all you are using the OP layer for is to make battle plans. There is no fighting, there is nothing to translate back up regarding the units. You don't even need a game. You take any CM map. take a screenshot. Make that your opsheet map. Figure your overall battle, how good your HQ units are, weather conditions etc You can use the OoB of any of their existing games to set that up if you aren't comfortable applying your own. They have Omaha, Schmidt, Bloody 110 and SEiH to choose from and the last 3 are all available on vassal.

Again this is all just thinking aloud. I have printed out a lot of the TCS stuff for market garden and am pulling together some base maps in preparation for the MG module. I expect to try and lay in roads and rivers, railroads etc and then leave it for whatever new terrain and flavor items BFC introduces. Assuming I actually complete them I'll toss em up for anyone to use, but don't expect anything near as good as Hamel Vallee. Some folks have a knack for this and the rest of us just muddle along.

I know there are some of us who only play solitaire and even HTH solitaire. I think this would provide them with a much larger venue and a way to make it more playable. I've even toyed with th idea that if a platoon or company is out of C2, you have to send a runner, an actual pixel trooper. And if they get killed along the way oops no order gets passed.

[Broadsword56]

Cool idea about the pixel-runner. Would be even more fesible if, say, the HQ support teams could split off individual soldiers for this.

About my op-tac campaign system: It's definitely not for everybody. I developed it because it fit my own needs and tastes. I'm all about historical play, historical tactics and maps of real places -- in other words, to push the envelope of the game to make it as much a "time machine" as possible.

It's also great to run a solitaire op campaign because you can play it as you want and not have to organize and maintain teams, etc. But by inviting good players in for specific battles (like sburke) I also get to enjoy the social benefits of HTH at the same time.

I also enjoy mapping, so while I'm not pleased that it takes me weeks to make a good map, I find the experience of seeing and playing on the real terrain doubles the thrill of CMBN for me. It's the experience I always dreamed about back in the old hex-and-counter days, when I squinted at those map symbols or tank sihouettes trying so hard to imagine what the action would just played really would have looked like.

Once the Saint-Lo campaign ends, I have an Operation Epsom op-tac campaign set up and already started to use with the CW module, using Panzer Grenadier:Beyond Normandy (Avalanche Press, counters are platoons). And for the Market Garden module I'm going to use MMP's "Where Eagles Dare" (counters are companies) and just play the Hell's Highway portion of the campaign.

[Broadsword56]

Just remembered a lingering question from this battle: Why the Germans never targeted the Hotel au Heup horse farm complex on top of Hill 108. Aside from some early and ineffective mortaring near it, the hilltop never seemed to be specifically targeted. I had my main FO in the upper story of the house with the ruined upper story through the entire battle, and while his LOS wasn't ideal it was very good for quite a way back into the German side. The farm was also a rally point, movement crossroads, mortar position, and anchor to the US position throughout the battle. Was it a matter of conserving ammo and hitting only spotted troops? OTOH, since the Germans won I guess that proves the right choice was made...

[sburke]

Just remembered a lingering question from this battle: Why the Germans never targeted the Hotel au Heup horse farm complex on top of Hill 108. Aside from some early and ineffective mortaring near it, the hilltop never seemed to be specifically targeted. I had my main FO in the upper story of the house with the ruined upper story through the entire battle, and while his LOS wasn't ideal it was very good for quite a way back into the German side. The farm was also a rally point, movement crossroads, mortar position, and anchor to the US position throughout the battle. Was it a matter of conserving ammo and hitting only spotted troops? OTOH, since the Germans won I guess that proves the right choice was made...

No, it should have been a target, but I was worried about how long this battle would run and how much ammo I could commit to possible targets versus actual targets. Besides my briefing from higher command told me specifically actual targets. I once asked my FO to target the Hotel and he said "but Major, we have orders!!"

He's a real kiss ass, I think he's engaged to the Artillery battalion commander.

[cool breeze]

Tons of thanks to Sburke and Broadsword56 for making this amazing AAR!! It was a riveting nail-biter through to the last turn! I hope to see another someday.

[Broadsword56]

I'm sure you will (Although it may be awhile yet -- this op-tac campaign has been going on for some 9 months, I think, and just the Hamel Vallee battle took over a month for us to play out).

What I really hope is that those who enoyed this AAR will feel encouraged and inspired to post some of their own. I enjoy reading/seeing a good war story on these forums more than anything else. And if more people are inspired to try making operational-tactical campaigns of their own using a boardgame with CMBN, I'm always happy to share anything from my experiences that might help.

[Boche]

Is there any chance of us getting the final AAR screen? cassualties etc? im interested in seeing how the units got on.

[sburke]

sure, will load it up tonight

[Broadsword56]

Is there any chance of us getting the final AAR screen? cassualties etc? im interested in seeing how the units got on.

I don't have the official in-game victory screen handy, but here's the final tally from the Excel file I used to keep track of my US forces during the game:

---

[sburke]

Much more detailed than the final stat screen. I'll get a screenshot of that as well as trying to get a breakdown like Broadsword has..however the battlion got wiped out shortly thereafter so it won't mean much

[Broadsword56]

I think Sniper Molek should be presumed to have escaped and found a way back to Division after the airstrike...He's already proven how wily and quick-thnking he is...and sniper teams were attached from higher HQ after all, so not totally implausible that he might appear again in a future battle.

[Boche]

cheers for the screen.

and indeed, Molek is alive!

[sburke]

Okay here is the screenshot tally

I did a quick (and I mean quick so don't put too much weight into this) tally of my Company strengths

Unit Str Cas Pct

BN HQ 5 0 0

1st Coy 82 32 39

2nd Coy 78 19 24

3rd Coy 81 21 30

HW Coy 41 13 30

For a better understanding of the overall state of KG Lang

1st Co.

HQ team almost wiped out, Co PJ team lost a guy, but still functional

1st Pltn - 2nd Sq almost wiped out no AT capability left

2nd Pltn - only 2nd Sq left and it was broken no functional AT

3rd Pltn - exhausted but still retains considerable strength

MG Sect - 1 functioning MG, sniper eliminated

2nd Co

HQ team and Co PJ team okay

1st Pltn - HQ team wiped out 9 men left in the line squads 1 functioning PJ team

2nd Pltn - Fully capable

3rd Pltn - battered HQ and line squads still retain 12 men no functioning PJ teams

MG sect - 2 good MG teams Sniper still capable (Molek)

3rd Co

HQ team and CO PJ team capable

1st Pltn - HQ and line squads have 12 men 1 functioning PJ team

2nd Pltn - almost fully capable

3rd Pltn - HQ and line squads have 12 men 2 functioning PJ teams

MG sect - 1 functioning team, sniper eliminated

HW Co

5 functional MG teams

The average morale state of my units was rattled or nervous with quite a few broken, fitness levels were mostly rested though quite a few were tired and 3rd pltn 1st coy was exhausted.

The American assault that just kicked off is directed at a couple really beat up platoons w/o much AT capability. Just behind them is 2nd Pltn 3rd Company which is still in good shape and on the left flank of the attack was a fully functional platoon in 2nd Company.

I seriously doubt my StuG units would be capable of intervening. Even if they made it to hwy 91 I am betting there are enough Baz units floating around to have made life miserable. I didn't have any offensive capable infantry to support them.

My basic assessment is the PJ Bty had kept the Americans from being able to sucessfully employ combined Infantry/Armor teams and carried out it's role admirably. My infantry held better than expected, but even with the support of the PJ units they were rapidly reaching the limit of what they could withstand. Of my 9 platoons, only two were fully capable, another still had most of it's personnel but was pretty fought out. The other 6 were barely capable of fielding the force of an American squad and many of those guys were injured, some were out of ammo etc. I was lucky the battle ended when it did.

[JonS]

... many of those guys were injured, some were out of ammo etc. I was lucky the battle ended when it did.

I wonder just how many battles sputtered out in mutual exhaustion. To expand this wider for a sec, one of the persistent criticisms of Haig is that he supposedly never knew when to call a battle off, always callously sending his own troops forward one more time to overwhelm an enemy he - wrongly - believed to be barely hanging on by their chinstraps. But stuff like this - while fully acknowledging the disconnect between a wargame and the Western Front - makes me wonder if maybe he was more right than he was wrong.

Do you feel Broadsword would have overwhelmed you with little difficulty if he'd 'just' pressed on a little bit longer and a little bit harder?

[sburke]

I wonder just how many battles sputtered out in mutual exhaustion. To expand this wider for a sec, one of the persistent criticisms of Haig is that he supposedly never knew when to call a battle off, always callously sending his own troops forward one more time to overwhelm an enemy he - wrongly - believed to be barely hanging on by their chinstraps. But stuff like this - while fully acknowledging the disconnect between a wargame and the Western Front - makes me wonder if maybe he was more right than he was wrong.

Do you feel Broadsword would have overwhelmed you with little difficulty if he'd 'just' pressed on a little bit longer and a little bit harder?

From my view I had two issues. First my infantry was just about at the end of it's rope. Broadsword could have simply bypassed my strongest platoon, it was in the manor and would have had to move to participate in the battle. That left me with one solid, relatively fit platoon. Second my Stugs would more than likely not be able to contribute to the fight until after that platoon had been shoved out of the way. The lay of the land would likely be working against me now and I was not too far from the end of my artillery reserve.

I think there might have been a difficult couple of turns (unless of course the american artillery barrage shifted over in that direction, which is what I would think would have been likely), but once that crust broke I am not sure how much gas I had left. I had two unengaged 88s left but so far back their contribution would likely have been minimal. I think Broadsword's units on my left and center were in such a bad state they were not going to contribute much, but if that force on my right was able to get even a bit of leverage, the center crossroads would have fallen and now I'd be in trouble.

The variable that I can't assess however is the TAC AI. What I love about this game is I can tell a unit what I want it to do, but at a certain point I have to accept that is only my desire. What they will actually do is something else completely. The little firefight at the end being a prime example. I had an exhausted team of 3 guys with 2 Kar 98's, an mp 40, a couple grenades, a PF and a rifle grenade. They were able to drive off a Sherman and eliminate a couple Americans who probably should have wiped them out. Their orders from me? Take a break and keep an eye on the road.

[Broadsword56]

I still think breaking off the attack was the right decision, as it preserved the battalion for the campaign and I was still able to eliminate the rest of KG Lang with the follow-up airstrikes.

(The command failures that made the American units fail to exploit that opportunity are another matter...)

Now that Hamel Vallee is again occupied, and by a fresh German battalion, the action has shifted elsewhere.

It's now the following day -- July 17, and the 29th ID has sprung a hasty -- but huge --attack on a fortified -- but tiny -- German company in the village of La Luzerne, just E of the Isigny-St Lo Highway...

[sburke]

I still think breaking off the attack was the right decision, as it preserved the battalion for the campaign and I was still able to eliminate the rest of KG Lang with the follow-up airstrikes.

(The command failures that made the American units fail to exploit that opportunity are another matter...)

Now that Hamel Vallee is again occupied, and by a fresh German battalion, the action has shifted elsewhere.

It's now the following day -- July 17, and the 29th ID has sprung a hasty -- but huge --attack on a fortified -- but tiny -- German company in the village of La Luzerne, just E of the Isigny-St Lo Highway...

Sounds like another addition to my SIG line is coming .

[sburke]

Interesting and sad article Broadsword came across today.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/1463860/German-soldier-buried-60-years-after-dying-in-battle.html

Alfred Gartner, a German paratrooper, was killed on a summer's day fighting in the fields of Normandy. Yesterday, in a simple and moving ceremony at the German military cemetery at La Cambe, which lies squarely in the middle of Utah and Omaha beaches, he was buried.

His body, or what little remained of it, was found by a farmer only last week in one of the traditional bocage hedges that define the lanes and fields of Normandy. A cow grazing in a field at La Luzerne, north-east of St Lo, blundered into the hedge and dislodged the bones that had lain there undisturbed since 1944. Part of the skull, a bone from an arm and some ribs were found alongside tunic buttons and a rusting pistol.

Also found were Alfred's dog tags, containing the date of his mobilisation, which allowed the Deutsche Dienststelle, custodian of the military records of 18 million German soldiers from the two world wars, to identify him. He was part of the 6th Parachute Regiment reformed in January 1944 and sent to help to beat off the threat of invasion on the north French coastline.

Records show that he was killed by an enemy grenade as his unit fought unsuccessfully to stop the American infantry advance towards St Lo, which they finally took on July 18, 1944. It is thought the force of the exploding grenade blew him into the bocage - ancient, shoulder-high hedges which provided perfect cover for the entrenched Germans as the Allies pushed inland from the Normandy beaches.

Infantry troops had to fight their way forward field by field and even tanks found it hard to make progress through the bocage. His remains were brought to the German cemetery, which is alongside the main N17 route from Bayeux to Isigny sur Mer, not far from the Omaha beach site where the Americans sustained 3,000 casualties as they came ashore on D-Day. Of 225 Rangers who landed to take the strategically important battery at Pointe du Hoc, only 90 were left standing 36 hours later. The casualty rate of 68 per cent was D-Day's highest.

The cemetery was created by the American war graves commission as an emergency burial ground for Americans and Germans killed in action. After 1945, the American dead were reburied further along the coast at Laurent-sur-Mer and La Cambe was taken over by the German war graves commission. One of the biggest provisional Second World War graves in France, it originally contained 8,000 dead but that number was increased to more than 21,000.

Yesterday, under a cobalt blue sky, Alfred Gartner joined his comrades who lie two to a grave under the immaculate oak- and beech-shaded lawns.

Finding a soldier's remains is not uncommon in Normandy, where cemeteries contain 177,000 soldiers, 80,000 of them German. Most lost their lives in the battles that raged across the Norman countryside between D-Day, June 6, and Aug 20, when German resistance ended in 1944. Last year, the remains of 12 soldiers were found. This year, so far, there have been three.

Alfred left behind in Germany a wife and a young son. His widow, frail and now in her 80s, has been told of the find as has his son, now in his 60s and approaching retirement, but neither could be present at yesterday's 25-minute ceremony.

An honour guard, fittingly of German paratroops, was present as his remains, in a small coffin with the German flag draped over it, was lowered into the grave, which he will share with Herman Sarr, 37, who was killed on July 15, 1944. A party of German veterans, old men with silver hair and walking sticks but smart on parade in black blazers and grey flannels, snapped to attention as the coffin was lowered.

Their senior officer, Alexander Uhlig, of the 6th Parachute Regiment, who was awarded the Knight Order of the King's Cross for his valour in Normandy, wiped away tears as a simple floral tribute, bedecked with a riband of black, red and gold, was laid at the graveside.

With a last salute from the paras, both old and new, the coffin was lowered. Eventually Alfred Gartner's name will be recorded on the plaque which covers the grave. For the time being it will say only: "Ein Deutscher Soldat."