The Battle for Hamel Vallee - an AAR

[A Canadian Cat]

Excellent work guys and thanks for creating this.

I saw your AAR start but did not read fully until this morning. Awesome. What a great game. I love how it ended - by the Americans breaking contact due to high casualties. Clearly having an operational layer helps mitigate the all in slug fests that can happen in a one off battle. Makes me want to try it. Can you guys share info about what you used for the operational layer?

A friend and I are in the middle of a huge mostly tank battle that is total fantasy but we are having a blast. This game is amazing. Our plan from the start is to write up an AAR so hopefully we can come close to the quality of yours.

[Migo441]

I also wanted to chime in with a hearty thanks to sburke and broadsword56 for making this available. I love how the old (hexes and counters) is blended with the new (Google earth and CMBN).

Is there a thread somewhere describing more fully how your operational layer works?

[sburke]

Excellent work guys and thanks for creating this.

I saw your AAR start but did not read fully until this morning. Awesome. What a great game. I love how it ended - by the Americans breaking contact due to high casualties. Clearly having an operational layer helps mitigate the all in slug fests that can happen in a one off battle. Makes me want to try it. Can you guys share info about what you used for the operational layer?

A friend and I are in the middle of a huge mostly tank battle that is total fantasy but we are having a blast. This game is amazing. Our plan from the start is to write up an AAR so hopefully we can come close to the quality of yours.

Broadsword has been the one putting all the effort into the OP layer so I'll leave that one, but I'd love to see the AAR. I am still looking forward to the CMCW scenarios and campaigns and have avoided those as I don't want to spoil the surprise, but would love to see a large scale tank engagement. I have to say doing an AAR is also fun in that you have to review your moves and you have a very detailed look at what went wrong, what went right etc. It's a nice learning experience. The one thing we haven't tried is to do one while the game is running. It was suggested early in the thread and I do read quite a few of the AARs on Matrix site that do exactly that. (I am a huge fan of Capt Mandrake etal's WitP:AE AAR). The beta testers had done some early on, but I think it would be really cool for BFC to add an AAR section that pbem opponents could post their games in that format.

It is a nice way to be able to enjoy the game at work.

[A Canadian Cat]

One last item just cause I have to show it before we continue. At one point the Stuh spotted a Stuart in the orchard on hill 108

and began firing rounds off. Accuracy wasn't it's strong suit and it fired several high.

<snip>

Then all of a sudden one round apparently runs into something.

I had no idea what I'd hit and my suspicions were all over the map. I would not get an answer till the battle was over.

<snip>

Excellent I love it when that happens. I have only seen it twice.

Once when a 105 barrage killed and AI panther (when it happened I had no idea there was a Panther there). Suddenly a black column of smoke came out of the middle of a barrage and later at the end of the battle I found it was a Panther that was hit. I have never had that happen with 105 again - and I have seen at least 4 other tanks hit by 105s. I was lucky that day - still lost though. It was one of my first battles and I had no idea what I was doing:)

The other time I had an immobilized Sherman blasting away at an opposing bocage line supporting my infantry who were trying to cross the open field to get there. One round went through an infantry gap and hit something solid on the other side. Turns out it was my opponent's last Marder trying to move laterally to meet my flanking attack. Amazing.

I hope I did not miss you saying what you hit before: My question is what was it you hit? The explosion is big; so from that I would guess an M7 Priest but I do not think it was part of the American's order of battle. So I'll revise my guess to; a lucky hit on a Sherman.

[sburke]

LOL Broadsword looks like you are going to have to put together a "How to". Also note Noob has done similar work using the HPS series. Personally I am trying to figure out one using the TCS Gamers rules. What they have in common with St Lo (the game Broadsword is using) is there is a component to figure out C&C and the initiative/decision making cycle. What I like about TCS is the scale is more appropriate - platoon and individual vehicles/guns and the battles are regimental scale. I think the hardest time Broadsword and Noob have had is how to apply losses and figure out how to adjust the soft factors. I can't express how much more intense it made this game for me knowing my battalion was in bad shape and I had to that into account or my defensive plan would surely fail. Also we did leave the option of the Germans calling a ceasefire and withdrawing in some battles. This one I don't think we would have had that option. The battalion was in such poor state it would not have been able to successfully disengage and the terrain was such that the Americans would have hammered any attempt to retreat. As to the actual result of this battle, stay tuned. It is a bit of a shocker and that isn't just to keep you watching the commercials.

[Broadsword56]

A fascinating last chapter to the Hamel Vallee battle story remains to be told -- a tragic one for both sides that will make July 16, 1944, a date oft-remembered in the stories told to future generations...

By afternoon, the US 3/320th Infantry abandoned its futile and costly assault on Hamel Vallee. So the higher HQ did what Americans usually do in these situations: call in airstrikes to blast the defenders out.

The exhausted Germans of KG Lang could barely see the Thunderbolts swooping in through the lingering smoke of battle -- but they certainly heard and felt the effects of two massive sorties. The first one decimated the battalion; the second one shattered it and sent the survivors fleeing for Saint-Lo.

Incredibly, the enemy that had blocked the Americans' progress toward Hill 122 so stubbornly was gone!

And just as incredibly, the Americans proved unable to exploit this decisive moment -- their best opportunity in the six days of the Saint-Lo campaign thus far. The 3/320th was too battered and exhausted to move. And the only only other two US units in a position to rush the gap to Hill 122 both failed their activation dierolls.

So -- just as happened in the real campaign -- the Americans' slowness and command problems gave the Germans just enough time to rush another unit to Hamel Vallee and shut the door again. A double tragedy: For the brave Germans of KG Lang, who outfought the GIs only to be "unfairly" assailed from above; and for all those Americans still lying in the orchards and wheatfields of Hamel Vallee, whose sacrifices were nearly redeemed -- then wasted.

But this battle was only one event in a day's worth of fighting over this part of Normandy. Once the door to Hill 122 closed again, the campaign's spotlight shifted to upheavals on the east and west ends of the XIX Corps sector:

[Hamel Vallee is the spot with the yellow explosion line around it. The dotted red line represents the German front line at the start of July 16, and the solid orange line represents the German front line at the end of the day. White arrows are American movements and attacks.]

A new American unit -- the 1/175th Infantry -- arrived in the sector and raced down the Isigny-Saint-Lo Highway toward the front to join the push for Hill 122. But the German OP atop Hill 122 had a perfect view of their approach march and called down devastating artillery fire, disrupting the battalion and ending its activities for the rest of the day.

Nevertheless, the imminent threat to Hill 122 convinced the German command it was time to withdraw from the salient of the Carillon heights and shorten their lines. The withdrawal was orderly and several units even managed to entrench in new positions.

But vigorous attacks by the two other regiments of the US 35th Infantry Division drove back the German left flank, and posed a threat to open the Carentan-to-Saint Lo highway.

And a worse crisis developed on the German right flank, where the 3FJ Division simply didn't have enough men left to maintain a solid line. Even though the Germans managed to anchor their far right flank, several holes opened around Le Calvais, St Andre de l'Epine, and the critical Martinville ridge -- a spur leading right into the NE suburbs of Saint-Lo.

[sburke]

I hope I did not miss you saying what you hit before: My question is what was it you hit? The explosion is big; so from that I would guess an M7 Priest but I do not think it was part of the American's order of battle. So I'll revise my guess to; a lucky hit on a Sherman.

That was exactly my thought! I didn't think we had any in play, but I deliberately avoided some of the briefing material as I get more out of the game if I feel uncertain as to what I am facing. The size of the blast made me think it was likely a Priest. Turned out to be a Sherman.

I was figuring that Broadsword could have as many as 12 Shermans at the end. The Company HQ sect and close to 2 full platoons. I had no perspective on Infantry, but it was conceivable to me thet Broadsword could still have a reinforced infantry company uncommitted yet. My orders to my Stugs to try and force their way out onto the Hwy and try to hit the Americans flank were a reflection of the desperation I was feeling. My right flank was getting hit hard in the barrage . You can't really tell from the screenshots, but the platoon under the barrage was effectively shattered. What I had left was a platoon on the far right. A pair of marders, an AT gun which was probably going to be the recipient of a nice size stonk if the game continued. The remnants of 2 platoons on the left of the assault area that were both pretty tired and beat up. 3rd Company had a few units not yet engaged near the crossroads and the platoon that I was sending over from Third company that was already showing the effects of battle. My ace in the hole was the artillery that was now impacting. At a minimum I figured it could buy me time. As it was I was having difficulty getting any counter attack in motion. Both crossroads still had armor and though I had eliminated two vehicles I knew there were more, plus I would now be giving the American Baz teams targets. Having seen how effective my Shrek gunners were I was not looking forward to that.

I had actually considered a counterattack by 2nd Company earlier in the game to relieve pressure at the crossroads. In retrospect it would likely have been a disaster. I was being way too optimistic on what they might accomplish.

[sburke]

The exhausted Germans of KG Lang could barely see the Thunderbolts swooping in through the lingering smoke of battle -- but they certainly heard and felt the effects of two massive sorties. The first one decimated the battalion; the second one shattered it and sent the survivors fleeing for Saint-Lo.

snip

So -- just as happened in the real campaign -- the Americans' slowness and command problems gave the Germans just enough time to rush another unit to Hamel Vallee and shut the door again. A double tragedy: For the brave Germans of KG Lang, who outfought the GIs only to be "unfairly" assailed from above; and for all those Americans still lying in the orchards and wheatfields of Hamel Vallee, whose sacrifices were nearly redeemed -- then wasted.

This was the bit I didn't want to reveal. My unit that had fought so hard and so well, exceeding all expectations was simply gone. Molek, Lang, the platoon commander of 3rd platoon 1st Company, my Shrek gunners, Hardenberger ...I was so proud of them and there would be no further battles with that unit. But that is exactly what the 352nd ID went through. It simply melted away under continuous combat holding a key position to try and deny the Americans victory.

For those interested I highly recommend a book Broadsword recommended to me

Normandiefront: D-Day to St Lo through German eyes by Vince Milano and Bruce Conner.

[Broadsword56]

Yes, this battle has been just like a chapter out of the "Normandiefront" book!

What kills me is that I now realize my late armored-infantry attack on sburke's right flank actually was working quite well in several respects -- it was indeed the right move at the right place -- and if it had managed to reach the highway and the Manor, it might well have succeeded in grabbing a corner of the objective before the battle ended.

But the US casualty toll was just already too high by that point, so the fatal problem was time -- it happened just too late in the day, casualty-wise. And that final turn of German artillery on the infantry, plus three lost tanks, were losses the Americans could no longer afford at that point.

On the other hand -- unless I somehow shattered the German force, the Americans had no real chance of capturing and holding the entire objective area, even if they had 2 or 3 hours left to attempt it. There just wouldn't have been enough cohesive US squads left to do it. The most I was hoping for was to reach a corner of the objective or bite off a small initial piece of it, then end the battle and hope that the op layer would give this battalion a chance to activate immediately again and resume the fight the same day in a "Round 2."

By the way: After the airstrike wiped out KG Lang, I expected some observers to wonder: Duh -- why the Americans didn't just launch the airstrikes FIRST, then let the 3/320th walk over their riddled bodies to Hill 122? I should point out that the op layer game (Saint-Lo) has a built-in, realistic risk to using allied airpower tactically, within 600 yards of one's own troops. If you roll a "5" on the airstrike column, the casualties hit only friendly troops -- and any friendly unit within 2 hexes is potentially subject to this. So, based on the on-paper odds and force matchups, it seemed a far better risk-reward option to go with the intensive ground attack, keeping the air in reserve to follow up or use elsewhere.

About the op layer: I have posted some details about how we've been doing this, in various places on the forum, over the past year. I'm delighted that there seems to be renewed interest. Would you rather I start a new thread (i.e., How I've Run an Op-Tac Campaign using Hex-and-Counter wargame")? Or, should I just find one of the threads where I've posted about this before and bump it with some new material, a link to this AAR, and links to things like the conversion rules and the relevant boardgame sites on Boardgamegeek?

[noob]

Clearly having an operational layer helps mitigate the all in slug fests that can happen in a one off battle. Makes me want to try it. Can you guys share info about what you used for the operational layer?

If you are interested in playing CM battles in an operational context checkout the links in my signature, the tutorial will allow you and another player to play a demo scenario as a H2H PBEM game from the operational game Panzer Campaigns Normandy '44 using CMBN to resolve any assaults.

Because the operational layer is also a game you have full operational FOW and fully automated supply, combat engineering, air strike and long range indirect fire functions.

The OOB editor that comes with the demo scenario allows the editing of any operational unit at any point in the game without corrupting the operational save game file, thus allowing the combat effects of any CMBN battles to be applied to any recently fought operational units at the end of each operational assault phase.

The operational units in the demo scenario have been edited for use with CMBN as described in the tutorial, so the Normandy '44 scenario is ready to go.

If you are not familiar with the Panzer Campaign series of games and want to preserve the FOW of the Normandy '44 scenario there is another demo called Mius '43 set on the Russian Front that can be used to learn the game, the link to it is in the tutorial.

[noob]

I think the hardest time Broadsword and Noob have had is how to apply losses and figure out how to adjust the soft factors.

I find tracking the casualties of the CM foot units the most difficult task, so as the company is the smallest combat formation for foot units generally used in my operations i make sure that i knew how many individual troops are missing from the companies OOB either before the company exits the map or at the end of the battle, and then subtract that number from the units operational headcount.

When the operational units headcount figure is modified in the Panzer Campaign OOB editor the units headcount is automatically displayed as a percentage which is then used to determine the headcount strength of the unit in the CM scenario editor.

To avoid the extra work of tracking individual mortar and MG losses i assumed that as long as the units were in supply then all companies were replenished with mortar and MG's for the next battle with just the crews reduced.

I link morale with a units performance of a given task and not casualties sustained, this is because in real life units can suffer heavy casualties and still have a morale benefit if they have successfully performed their task.

Therefore if a unit has to defend in a CM battle it is penalised if it is forced to exit the map before a given time, and rewarded if it remains on the map at the end of the battle.

Attacking units are rewarded for forcing the defender to exit the map prematurely and penalised if they themselves are forced to exit the map.

As for fatigue i make all foot units that have just a CM battle go from Fit to Weakened irrespective of the result, with recovery available only if the unit does not move or fight during the next operational turn.

[noob]

Excellent AAR guys, thoroughly absorbing, i especially liked how the subtle nuances of the terrain hindered the attack, the supremacy of the Pz Shrek in covered terrain, and of course the mini battles between individual soldiers that make CM a film within a game.

[sburke]

Excellent AAR guys, thoroughly absorbing, i especially liked how the subtle nuances of the terrain hindered the attack and the demonstration of the supremacy of the Panzer Shrek in covered terrain.

Thanks, yeah those guys were really impressive. I've noticed the same thing playing against the AI. I rarely spot the Pshk teams until the rocket is already airborne and I cringe knowing it's too late to do much about it. They'll kill anything on the allied side much more reliably than almost any other weapon.

The map is impressive, it has also given me a good idea of just how hard it is for BFC folks to generate dozens upon dozens of maps and then have us critique the hell out of them. I really enjoy playing on a map this intense, but I can't imagine trying to churn out the sheer volume of them the BFC team has to do. I have yet to really explore Stoneage's mapping tool, but just getting the terrain down is only one aspect. Filling in all the little details and flavor items that add so much to the feel of the map is painstaking work.

[A Canadian Cat]

<snip>The map is impressive, it has also given me a good idea of just how hard it is for BFC folks to generate dozens upon dozens of maps and then have us critique the hell out of them. I really enjoy playing on a map this intense, but I can't imagine trying to churn out the sheer volume of them the BFC team has to do. I have yet to really explore Stoneage's mapping tool, but just getting the terrain down is only one aspect. Filling in all the little details and flavor items that add so much to the feel of the map is painstaking work.

So, true. Making a map is hard. I am hoping Stoneage's tool will help but you are right there is more than just elevation and terrain that needs to be right. To all the map makers out there - a big thank you.

[A Canadian Cat]

<snip> The size of the blast made me think it was likely a Priest. Turned out to be a Sherman.

Thanks for revealing the mystery.

In one of your screen shots you had a shrek team target a tank at what looked like 143m. Did I read that right? I never let my guys fire the shrek at those distances 100m is my go for it zone. Do you find you have success at distances like 140m? I know your guys took 3 shots to get their hit but I find they don't usually get a chance to fire three times. Usually they start taking fire from some where faster than that. Perhaps firing at 140m mitigates that and your guys survive longer than mine. I usually give my Shrek team a 100m circular cover arc.

[sburke]

Thanks for revealing the mystery.

In one of your screen shots you had a shrek team target a tank at what looked like 143m. Did I read that right? I never let my guys fire the shrek at those distances 100m is my go for it zone. Do you find you have success at distances like 140m? I know your guys took 3 shots to get their hit but I find they don't usually get a chance to fire three times. Usually they start taking fire from some where faster than that. Perhaps firing at 140m mitigates that and your guys survive longer than mine. I usually give my Shrek team a 100m circular cover arc.

I generally start with a short covered arc as they will take some long shots (like the very last team that fired and missed, I really didn't think that team would spot anything from there) however once the enemy gets into the 150m range, depending on the team I will drop the covered arc. Though my battalion was pretty beat up, they were veterans. A few times they had to take more than one shot, but only that last tank avoided them.

I don't think I will ever know how much of an impact I had in allowing my units to freely shoot up the TCs (they certainly hit a number of them) and how much the dust, smoke and artillery was distracting the enemy armor but Broadsword and I were both taken aback at how they found it near impossible to identify AT threats. Experience obviously from the various threads on the forum is all over the place, but in this battle they were more than just effective, they were a very deadly threat that I could reliably expect to deal with any armor that my StuGs could not.

I am one of those who would like an armored covered arc, primarily to make my life easier and not have to set covered arcs too short to keep the unit hidden thereby losing some opportunities for ambush. As you could see from this battle though, they were still highly effective.

[ridethe415]

...I am creating a unit folder and assigning all the Uniforms, Portraits, Helmets etc into Individual Unit folders so I can just copy and paste when I want specific forces in a battle. I pulled my entire z folder and am reorganizing it to make it easier to track and alter.D

Can you elaborate on your method? I imagine you are grouping files by division? I'd love an easy drag and drop method to change things. Thanks

[Broadsword56]

I don't think I will ever know how much of an impact I had in allowing my units to freely shoot up the TCs (they certainly hit a number of them) and how much the dust, smoke and artillery was distracting the enemy armor but Broadsword and I were both taken aback at how they found it near impossible to identify AT threats.

In real life, from what I've read, the only way the Allied tankers ever really found to cope was to area-fire every hedge and bush and building in sight as they moved.

I also think the real-life Allied tankers were more prone than we are to pull back at the first sign of dismounted AT teams and leave the infantry to fend for themselves. Their attitude seemed to be: "If the infantry won't do their jobs and flush out the 'shreck teams ahead of us, then they can't expect us to stay here and risk our necks for them." But maybe I'm more infantry-centric in my POV. In the game, I know I tend to leave my tanks exposed to danger more than I ought to.

[sburke]

Can you elaborate on your method? I imagine you are grouping files by division? I'd love an easy drag and drop method to change things. Thanks

Well it is a work in process, but here's the theory so far. I have a CMBN folder on my desktop that is basically a bunch of shortcuts - hthh, dropbox folders, the incoming and outging email folders, screenshot folder for fraps, z folder for mods etc etc. Just a one stop place to get me to all the various folders that I use a lot.

In there I have created a unit folder, in that folder I have the various nationalities, then under nationalities the various divisons (and in the case of the airborne units regiments) In those folders I put unit specific stuff. So for example the 506th PI Regiment folder will have the Mord unit portrait for airborne already renamed (I also use the same portrait and rename to infantry to cover airborne units that sometimes use the infantry image - discovered that in one of the airborne campaigns), the helmet files for the 506th, appropriate uniforms etc. So if I want to play a scenario or campaign I just copy that whole folder into the Z folder and done. Everything should be synched up for the 506th. If I am then going to have a battle with the 29th ID, I just delete the folder and copy in the 29th ID folder.

In my z folder I have defaults that I want across the board, sound files, explosion effects, terrain and UI mods (all in their own folders) and of course a honkin huge Aris vehicles folder.

I put Aris decals into the appropriate unit folders to be copied in so the vehicles can match up as well.

This was the only plan I could come up with where I knew exactly where a unit mod file should go and be renamed so I don't have worry about constantly wondering if I am going to copy over the wrong file.

*Note the unit files are all named Z_29th ID for example to make sure it overwrites any defaults. I think this becomes most important for applying Aris decals.

[sburke]

In real life, from what I've read, the only way the Allied tankers ever really found to cope was to area-fire every hedge and bush and building in sight as they moved.

I also think the real-life Allied tankers were more prone than we are to pull back at the first sign of dismounted AT teams and leave the infantry to fend for themselves. Their attitude seemed to be: "If the infantry won't do their jobs and flush out the 'shreck teams ahead of us, then they can't expect us to stay here and risk our necks for them." But maybe I'm more infantry-centric in my POV. In the game, I know I tend to leave my tanks exposed to danger more than I ought to.

Well that is the real life balancing act that they faced, no surprise we have the same issues trying to figure out how to overcome these tactical issues. Your infantry needs the tanks to suppress the defenses and your tanks need your infantry to take out the AT units. If either fails, they both fail. If this were easy, I think most of us wouldn't really be interested in gaming it. When you get it right, it is awesome only because you know it is so hard to accomplish. As many folks have pointed out here and they actually included in the TCS rulebooks, the battles we like to fight are exactly the battles commanders on the ground tried to avoid. They were fought because of a failure at the strategic and even more so the operational level to hit the enemy where they were weak. But what is the fun in that for gaming (though I do like playing the underdog)?

[GerryCMBB]

Is it true that in either Broadswords or noob's system, once the Op layer decrees that a battle is to be fought, then someone has to create a CMBN map for that Op hex being fought over? This would put the systme out of the reach of most players I think if true.

Are both players playing the operational game also?

Really interesting to see the Op layer control what a player is willing to do on the CMBN battlefield.

Thanks,

Gerry

[Childress]

As many folks have pointed out here and they actually included in the TCS rulebooks, the battles we like to fight are exactly the battles commanders on the ground tried to avoid.

It's been said that an 'Interesting Battle' results when Intelligence screws up. Reminiscent of the ancient Chinese curse, 'may you live in interesting times.' In CMBN we're playing mistakes.

[Boche]

For those interested I highly recommend a book Broadsword recommended to me

Normandiefront: D-Day to St Lo through German eyes by Vince Milano and Bruce Conner.

I would, if they werent selling it for £1,465.08 on the used section on Amazon uk!!!

[sburke]

I would, if they werent selling it for £1,465.08 on the used section on Amazon uk!!!

rotflmao!! I got a copy at the very reasonable price of £1,000 for ya

It's $22.76 here new. http://www.amazon.com/Normandiefront-D-Day-Saint-Lo-Through-German/dp/0752459783/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336599572&sr=8-1

[Boche]

jeje no problem, I alrady got it here for 8 quid.

thing with getting things from the US isnt so much the price, but the postage.