So what you guys think?

[Sequoia]

If anything it is amazing that Clay and team managed to get this to run on the iPads at all (and I know that they had to combat a lot of OOM errors in the process).

Martin

So can you formally introduce us to the "Team"? Someone Mentioned Clay was involved with Dropteam.

[LordCalvert]

Oh. And can I make one feature enhancement request? It would be just swell if there were support for asynchronous multiplayer. As I mentioned elsewhere, when my brother and I play, our schedules don't exactly line up and we live in different parts of the US. So, when we play CM, we use PBEM. Now, I don't expect PBEM in CM:T, but some kind of asynchronous play would be great (unless that's already supported in the GameCenter implementation?).

Thanks for reading...

:cool:

--DotComCTO

Check this out from "Upcoming 1.1 Update"-thread:

"Saved Games

Your games in progress will be automatically saved as you play. This will work much the way that replays do (it's completely automatic and to load one, you just select any of your previous past few games to continue where it left off).

This feature is also the groundwork for asynchronous multiplayer, which won't be in 1.1, but also won't be far behind it."

Asynchronous multiplayer is a real winner in my book. Easy opponent finding and easy online play are really important things!

Now I just have to buy an iPad to play this $4.99 game.

[BadgerDog]

Badger, you may as well try it, it's quite fun.

Well, I did give it a try ...

Nicely programmed, but I couldn't get through a scenario without it crashing to the iPad3 home page during the "calculation" part of the move. I kept having to start over, but finally gave up. It's a 64Gb new iPad with current IOS, so I have no idea what the problem is.

Anyway, from what I saw, it's a nice arcade version of CM and might lead to bringing in more revenue if those buyers come here and start buying the harder core version.

Of course, they need to address the instability issues first, or it's going to die on the vine ...

Programming and animation reminds me of the same group who produced "Armored Combat" for the iPad ..

Regards,

Doug

[Joe Shaw]

Well, I did give it a try ...

Nicely programmed, but I couldn't get through a scenario without it crashing to the iPad3 home page during the "calculation" part of the move. I kept having to start over, but finally gave up. It's a 64Gb new iPad with current IOS, so I have no idea what the problem is.

Anyway, from what I saw, it's a nice arcade version of CM and might lead to bringing in more revenue if those buyers come here and start buying the harder core version.

Of course, they need to address the instability issues first, or it's going to die on the vine ...

Programming and animation reminds me of the same group who produced "Armored Combat" for the iPad ..

Regards,

Doug

It did that once for me but only once. I've played through a full scenario without a problem and pieces of a couple of others (I was trying to get comfortable with the commands) and only had it crash once.

Joe

[ClaytoniousRex]

are there more than one AI plan per scenario?

Yes, there are.

crashing to the iPad3 home page during the "calculation" part of the move

One unfortunate reality of iOS, even as of 5.1, is that you occasionally have to reset the device to clear its memory. You will run into this with many other big games, too. Hold down the Home and Sleep buttons simultaneously until you see a red slider, then swipe the slider to shut the device down. Power it back up and odds are very high that your problem will be gone. Either way, make sure you connect to WiFi sometime soon so that we can see your crashlog and address it if there's some problem other than iOS not releasing memory.

[DotComCTO]

Most people vastly underestimate what is going on under the hood in CM, and how different it is from what happens in the typical FPS or RTS. CM is a simulation, using physics and algorithms to simulate outcomes on a vast battlefield, all going on at the same time. You can't fudge this like you can in most FPS or RTS, which simplify anything that isn't in your immediate view usually. That makes for some great graphics and gives the impression of bigger distances and events than what is really going on. CM doesn't have that luxury, not unless we begin watering down the sim aspect of the game (and we don't want that).

And once you grasp that, then the second thing most people forget is that as you increase your calculations and fidelity in a 3 dimensional space, the requirements do not simply double with the distance, but increase exponentially (in fact, they increase even more since we're taking into account different elevations, too)

CMTouch is somewhat simplified from CMBN in the simulation department, but not as much as you may think. It is still a true war simulation, not just an RTS clickfest, and tracks ballistics and other algorithms.

If anything it is amazing that Clay and team managed to get this to run on the iPads at all (and I know that they had to combat a lot of OOM errors in the process).

Martin

Martin,

Thanks again for that detailed response. Forgive my ignorance, but I do have one follow-up though:

The system spec for CMBO is a Celeron chip, and for CMBN it's a P4. How is it that the dual-core A5X w/1 GB system RAM (and a quad core GPU) is not sufficient to run a game of CMBO's complexity? Granted, iOS and other apps can consume a chunk of that 1 GB, but I would have imagined there should still be sufficient system RAM available.

Any additional insight you can provide would be great!

Thanks!

:cool:

--DotComCTO

[ClaytoniousRex]

The system spec for CMBO is a Celeron chip, and for CMBN it's a P4. How is it that the dual-core A5X w/1 GB system RAM (and a quad core GPU) is not sufficient to run a game of CMBO's complexity? Granted, iOS and other apps can consume a chunk of that 1 GB, but I would have imagined there should still be sufficient system RAM available.

Any additional insight you can provide would be great!

Thanks!

:cool:

--DotComCTO

Our min spec is not 1GB of RAM, it's 512MB, because we support the iPad2. Out of that, only a fraction is available to any one running app. Furthermore, a big chunk of it used by video, VBO's, textures, and shaders (video memory is not separate from general purpose RAM).

So memory is an extremely scarce and difficult-to-manage resource in this environment. There is no concept of virtual memory here, in the sense of paging to disk. This, and the amount of time a player is willing to wait for turn computation, are the main limiting factors in the simulation. (These are related to, but not comprehensively inclusive of, all of the limiting factors for the graphics, but I think your question was about the simulation).

[BadgerDog]

ClaytoniousRex ..

Are you the same crew who produced "Armored Combat" for the iPad?

Even the music is the same?

Regards,

Doug

[ClaytoniousRex]

ClaytoniousRex ..

Are you the same crew who produced "Armored Combat" for the iPad?

Even the music is the same?

Regards,

Doug

No, and I haven't had a chance to try that one yet, either. There have been so many silly "drive my tank around" mobile games that I just unfairly ignored this one when I first noticed it.

[Thomm]

I cannot figure out how it was possible to avoid the typical 0/45/90 degree tiled look on the roads and the hedges!

Does the game share any LOS/AI code with CM, or was it built from scratch around the principles of CMx2.

Best regards,

Thomm

[Mistah Kurtz]

Well, I just bought it for my iPad3, not because I'll ever play it, but I wanted to support Battlefront for their continued development of CMBN and other excellent games.

The entertainment factor of their products for me over the years has been far more than what they charge for their individual products.

Thanks Battlefront ..

+1

Although I'll play it a bit.

I'll buyShock Force for OS X as well when it's released.

[Grrrunt]

This game has great potential! I love it already! Not passed scenario#1 yet! Interesting tactical decisions to make.

Love the guns sounds in background/off in distance really adds to atmosphere.

Some feedback, not criticism these thoughts/observations are just a gamers needs/wants to make it even more brill...please:

1) Please change the running animation of troops they look knocked-kneed:eek:

2) Small sprite look odd and are facing backwards until u get closer.:eek:

3) When playing the Germans...change icons to grey not leave them as USA green I actually thought u couldn't play the Germans in scenario1 until I zoomed right in! (my mistake but it would help):cool:

4) Bit more war damage for the terrain. Ruins & shell holes the old smouldering building or wreck if possible iPads I guess are limited perhaps?

5) Not sure if it was German arty falling just behind my troops I take it was German?

6) Keep up the brilliant work & many thanks from a happy gamer!

[Joe Shaw]

This game has great potential! I love it already! Not passed scenario#1 yet! Interesting tactical decisions to make.

Love the guns sounds in background/off in distance really adds to atmosphere.

Some feedback, not criticism these thoughts/observations are just a gamers needs/wants to make it even more brill...please:

1) Please change the running animation of troops they look knocked-kneed:eek:

2) Small sprite look odd and are facing backwards until u get closer.:eek:

3) When playing the Germans...change icons to grey not leave them as USA green I actually thought u couldn't play the Germans in scenario1 until I zoomed right in! (my mistake but it would help):cool:

4) Bit more war damage for the terrain. Ruins & shell holes the old smouldering building or wreck if possible iPads I guess are limited perhaps?

5) Not sure if it was German arty falling just behind my troops I take it was German?

6) Keep up the brilliant work & many thanks from a happy gamer!

I noticed the arty as well, it looks like it's coming from offshore but I'm sure it's supposed to be German arty ... I hope

Joe

[Grrrunt]

Joe yeah i seemed to follow me up the beach just behind troops??

Forgot to add this thought: I would be cool to have a 'glue' feature...so u can embed yourself to a tank or a unit etc & stay with them once battle commences & watch 'em fight!

So the camera wouldn't fly off some where else just give u the action with this one unit.

MAYBE u could play the whole scenarios/s this way as an option. U still, as a commander, get to issue orders for all the units, but once these have been issued u get to see only what u would see from where u are on the battlefield?

Of course u can always change back to seeing everything...just a thought!

Keep up the brilliant work & many thanks from a happy, buying gamer!

[Moon]

Tap the little "lock" button on top of the screen after selecting a unit, Grrrunt.

[Grrrunt]

Tap the little "lock" button on top of the screen after selecting a unit, Grrrunt.

Thanks Moon for your info I'm unable to checkout your handy hint at the moment as one of my kids is on the ipad... but I take it will get u following that unit once u clik the arrow fro the Ai to start it's thinking/move?

[Battlefront.com]

The system spec for CMBO is a Celeron chip, and for CMBN it's a P4. How is it that the dual-core A5X w/1 GB system RAM (and a quad core GPU) is not sufficient to run a game of CMBO's complexity? Granted, iOS and other apps can consume a chunk of that 1 GB, but I would have imagined there should still be sufficient system RAM available.

To follow up on what Clay already said...

There's a wild misconception of what the iPads can do compared to even much older PCs. It's like the old days when Packard Bell was putting out computers that APPEARED to be identical to Gateways, Dells, etc. but at 20% less cost. Forgetting the 25% DOA rate they had (heh), the Packard Bell computers ran much slower even though the technical specs sheet stuck to it implied that it was just as good as the more expensive computer sitting next to it. Why? Because, like so many things in life, the devil is in the details.

The iPad is optimized for certain types of applications. Resource hungry, CPU intensive, 3D games are not what the iPad is optimized for. If CMBO were more like Steel Panthers, I'm sure we could make it work on the iPad. But the very things which made CMBO different from Steel Panthers 12 years ago are the same things which nix the concept of it being ported over to the iPad today.

Obviously someone might disagree with us about this. Of course unless that person has extensive PC programming experience with CMx1 like games *and* experience programming on the iPad... well... perhaps that opinion should be taken with a grain of salt? Nah, why let facts get in the way of a good story

Steve

[aka_tom_w]

The iPad is optimized for certain types of applications. Resource hungry, CPU intensive, 3D games are not what the iPad is optimized for.

I would like to suggest that might be fair to say about the iPad1 and even the iPad2 but the New iPad is supposed to be A LOT faster and better at handling "Resource hungry, CPU intensive, 3D games" if I am not mistaken. CM Touch runs pretty well on my iPad2 but I would really like to see and feel the difference of how the New iPad would handle the game. FWIW

[Joe Shaw]

I would like to suggest that might be fair to say about the iPad1 and even the iPad2 but the New iPad is supposed to be A LOT faster and better at handling "Resource hungry, CPU intensive, 3D games" if I am not mistaken. CM Touch runs pretty well on my iPad2 but I would really like to see and feel the difference of how the New iPad would handle the game. FWIW

It works very well on my New Ipad ... mind you I don't have an Ipad2 so I can't make a comparison but I've not noticed many of the issues others have reported (crashes, fiddly view commands).

And I just now noticed that it's listed as one of the Featured New and Notable items for the New Ipad on Itunes.

The more of that we get the better ... once the update comes out with the Save Game feature I expect even better buzz and that means more updates, fixes and scenarios.

No, it's not perfect, but nothing ever is. I'm still thinking of a scene in one scenario where my US troops were overrun from two directions by Germans ... and seeing them spin and crumple to the ground from small arms fire ... spooky.

Now when I travel I can play CM ... that's all good.

Joe

[Grrrunt]

Works well on my iPad2 too! I've found in the 1st scenario the Germans have several different setups in their Ai with AT guns in different positions.

[Battlefront.com]

It works well on an iPad 2 or 3 (excepting some bugs on the latter) because the game was correctly programmed to stay within the abilities of those devices.

BTW, someone could look at the X-Box 360 and say that it kicks the average year 2000 PC's arse. And in many respects it does, but in many respects it doesn't. I doubt we could port CMx1 to X-Box either.

Steve

[Ranger33]

Well, since I was visiting home for Easter, and my mom has an iPad2, I of course decided to try it out. Very nice presentation and features. It's a bit frustrating to see some of the things we've been begging for in CMx2 in a $5 iPad game, but I digress . The game is fun, has a very "mini-CMBN' feel to it and offers the same sort of tactical decisions.

My only problems are how the zoomed out infantry sprites always seem to point in the wrong direction, and that the camera is difficult to wrangle with. It always wants to turn when all I want to do is zoom in/out.

[Beakie]

Hi.

As a new player of CM:T and a person that has never played any of the desktop versions I have to say I have enjoyed the discussion put forth by all....

That being said... I think that:

1. I think that more feedback during the replay is a must I know that Battle Academy is not as realistic as CM:T as a pure sim but I think their idea of telling the player that a naval bombardment destroyed a hidden unit is spot on. It lets me know that it was effective and not wasted. Realistic, no but fun yes.... I need to know my moves are making a difference...

2. The game is fun the way it is I have nothing but respect for what your trying to with your product and look forward to its new updates and scenarios to come. One of the reasons I finally pulled the trigger on buying was the promise of in app purchases and timely updates.

3. I also am of the opinion that not all iPad games are .99 cent throw away time wasters there is a market for well thought out strategy (Wargames or others). That people will play for a long time. In other words as a company don't sell your customers short just because of the platform they choose to use. (in other words there ARE serious games on the iPad not as many. I grant you as a desktop but more then you might think).

Again these are just my opinion, we all have them. I offer this simply as feedback one customer only, but, I don't think I'm alone in my opinions (at least I hope not... LOL) either.

Beakie

P.S Grognard from way back....FWIW

[tmartin]

Does anyone think the Panther armor needs to be tweaked? I've played "Panzer Ace" now several times as the American and just can't seem to lay a glove on even one of the Panthers - I had both of my M10s side by side just behind a bit of bocage and had one of the Panthers completely stern-to at about 20 meters... hit him several times, but he just accelerated away, reversed his turrent and blasted both M10s with a shot each. Yes, the Panther gun should be able to do that... but at high speed, reversed turrent... while 2 M10s each score multiple (ineffective) rear shots?

Just for yuks I played as the German... only got one Panther agaisnt I think four M10s... I just ran my Panther at high speed to the star and started blasting away... again, hit multiple times from all angles, all bounced off.

Yea, it was a great tank... no, it was not invincible...

T

[Ranger33]

I don't know, I lost the Panther to a side hit at long range on that one. One shot bounced off, then the next hit knocked it out. Maybe you're just having bad luck.