Mord Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 That was GOOD! Adobe wan...LOL. Ok...spicing up the Canadians. These new ALTS will give the Canadians (and Brits as well) some extra kickassery... Mord. Mord 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 That brigade patch wouldn't be right, would it? MAN this is driving me CRAZY!!!! Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Yeah, that's right. I've also seen it presented as a diamond (with the same black-blue-black horizontal stripes), but don't know where that'd be used instead of the rectangle. (I think the rectangle went on vehicles, while the diamond went on uniforms) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 I meant because they are an independent brigade would they still fall under the 4th division? Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Oh, I see. No, not 4th Armd Div. You could swap that for II Cdn Corps. Or just leave it out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Yeah, I was trying to give three pieces of info but from division on down. I should've started with the Brits they were less confusing. That independent patch threw me off. Under the Brits the 11th armored has a red number for regiment and the yellow bull for brigade? Which would be the same as the yellow bull for their division sign? This one had a red number for regiment but the striped maple leaf for brigade. So usually the brigade symbol would be the same as the division symbol? Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 No, for 11th Armd Div it is: yellow bull -> 11 armd div red square -> armd bde (29th in this case IIRC) white number (inside red square) -> battalion/regiment within that bde green square -> inf bde white number (inside green square) -> battalion/regiment within that bde 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Ok. Check. Unless the vehicle is in an independent brigade then in that case the division symbol is replaced by a brigade symbol? And would those green infantry squares be considered armored infantry or can they be regular as well? I am gonna end up killing myself...talk about a hornets nest. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Unless the vehicle is in an independent brigade then in that case the division symbol is replaced by a brigade symbol? Correct. There is - of course, this being the British after all - a partial exception with the 7th Armd Div. Their armd bde had a weird split bde thingy. On top was a stags head, and below was the red square with white numbers And would those green infantry squares be considered armored infantry or can they be regular as well? Neither Each armd div had a single bn of armd inf, and they were in the armd bde (white number [54]). The three bns in the inf bde of an armd div were Lorried Inf (because they had their own lorries - the Bedford QLT - to haul them around). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknight (DC) Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Yeah, that's right. I've also seen it presented as a diamond (with the same black-blue-black horizontal stripes), but don't know where that'd be used instead of the rectangle. (I think the rectangle went on vehicles, while the diamond went on uniforms) The rectangle was for the 2nd Independent Armoured Brigade. The diamond was for the II Cdn Corps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknight (DC) Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I meant because they are an independent brigade would they still fall under the 4th division? Mord. The Brigades within the Divisions don't really have formation patches as such. IIRC, the Brigade HQ could have a strip under the formation patch, but I wouldn't suggest identifying the brigades in the divisions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Neither Each armd div had a single bn of armd inf, and they were in the armd bde (white number [54]). The three bns in the inf bde of an armd div were Lorried Inf (because they had their own lorries - the Bedford QLT - to haul them around). Oh man...you just made my head fart and vomit...Ok...You are confusing the hell out of me. Ok for the sake of my sanity lets just stick with the division as a whole. So a Armored Divison has ONE Armored Infantry Battalion and THREE PLAIN Infantry Battalions that are lorried? Please tell me that's right or I am gonna stab myself. I just checked a lorried battalion under armored infantry for the Brits (didn't see one under the Armour tab) and clicking through the units gives me a variety of both infantry and Armored Infantry portraits. I guess I'd have to make a portrait for both. This is looking less and less appealing Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 The Brigades within the Divisions don't really have formation patches as such. IIRC, the Brigade HQ could have a strip under the formation patch, but I wouldn't suggest identifying the brigades in the divisions. LOL yeah. I am starting to SEE that!!! I messed up 'cause of the Canadian independent brigade, that whole thing side tracked me. I liked the nice maple leaf symbol. Another thing that is screwing me up is that some of these brigades have regiments and some have battalions...I just want one fairly small formation below division that I can do across the boards...something I can find patches and badges for. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknight (DC) Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 In regard to the British divisions....what you are talking about just above are the Tactical markings/numbers, which were only on the vehicles. I think you're complicating things too much by trying to deal with the brigades, which don't, in general, have Formation Signs, unless they are independent brigades, not under a division, and in this case they would use a Brigade Formation sign on vehicles and uniforms The major formations are: Divisions 3rd, 15th, 43rd, 49th, 50th, 51st, 52nd (maybe), 53rd, 59th, 2nd Cdn, 3rd Cdn Guards Armd, 7th Armd, 11th Armd, 2nd Cdn Armd, 1st Polish Armd, 79th Armd Independent Brigades 4th, 6th Guards, 8th, 27th, 31st, 33rd, 34th, 2nd Cdn, 56th Infantry, Brigade Piron, Royal Netherlands, 1st Czech Armoured Plus 5 Corps I, VIII, XII, XXX, II Cdn To simplify your work, I'd say that the above are the major fighting formations (in line for the 'Big Patch' treatment). If you are going to identify individual battalions by shoulder flash and/or cap badge, then there will be some 200+ variations. Taking your example, maybe drop the brigade sign (which doesn't belong there anyway) and slide the shoulder title down to the bottom of the frame so that your Formation Patch shows through more. Plus the cap badge, which is a nice touch. I have extensive 21st AG OOBs if you have any questions there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknight (DC) Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Oh man...you just made my head fart and vomit...Ok...You are confusing the hell out of me. Ok for the sake of my sanity lets just stick with the division as a whole. So a Armored Divison has ONE Armored Infantry Battalion and THREE PLAIN Infantry Battalions that are lorried? Please tell me that's right or I am gonna stab myself. Don't stab yourself. The CW Armoured Division had: 1x Armoured Recce Regt 3x Armoured Regts 1x Motor Infantry Bn 3x Lorried Infantry Bn 1x Independent MG Coy plus Artillery, AT, LAA, Engineers, etc The CW Infantry Bn had: 1x Reconnaissance Regt 1x MG Bn 9x Infantry Bn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 YEAH! YEAH! YEAH!!! I am dropping that stinkin' Brigade sign... I'll do the independent brigades, though...maybe... If I do they are only getting a background. By the time I get this done we'll be on the East Front! What I could use that would cut down on my brain swell would be a list that had the Division Header and then the battalion names underneath and whether they are armor, armored infantry or infantry (so I know to distinguish). Or is there a way I could do regiments with the same idea? Shoulder patch and badges? Maybe regiments for Armor and Battalions for Infantry? Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknight (DC) Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I'll email you something to help you maintain your sanity tomorrow...er, today....later, after I've slept for a while. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Alright...cool! What do you think of the regiment for armor, thing? Or do they not have patches for regiments? Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknight (DC) Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The concept of the regiment might be what is part of the problem here. In the Commonwealth, at the time of WWII, the regiment was the parent administrative formation of the units; the regiment provided fighting battalions in time of war. I think that the concept of the regiment is a little different in Germany (at least it was in WWI, so I assume it was still the same for WWII). The German regiment was equivalent to the British brigade, but I think its contained battalions were from the same regiment. The brigade in Britain was not a parent organization; it usually contained battalions from entirely different parent regiments. And then the British armoured units could be battalions or 'regiments'. The Guards were converted infantry, so they called their tank units 'battalions' (eg. 2nd Bn Grenadier Guards). The Royal Tank Regiment provided numbered fighting units (eg. 3rd RTR or 5th RTR). The Royal Armoured Corps fighting units were called regiments (eg. 107th Regt, RAC). The above are all equivalent fighting units. Then there's the Canucks, who had a regimental system based on the British one but did not send multiple battalions to fight, so their fighting battalions were basically synonymous with the regiment (eg. Royal Canadian Regiment, South Alberta Regiment, Essex Scottish Regiment, etc). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Ok, then a list of divisions with whatever battalion or regiment (depending on the nation) fall under them. Ideally I'd like to be able to do badges and shoulder patches at least for the tankers. Have any info on helmet markings? Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradley Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 So....when will I get my grubby mitts on this masterpiece of mod :cool: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknight (DC) Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The rectangle was for the 2nd Independent Armoured Brigade. The diamond was for the II Cdn Corps. I was obviously tired last night when I posted this.... I am apparently mixing my references here. What I should have said: 2nd Independent Canadian Brigade Vehicle Formation Sign - rectangle, black/blue/black separated horizontally, maple leaf in centre Uniform Formation Patch - diamond shape, black/blue/black separated horizontally II Canadian Corps Vehicle Formation Sign - rectangle, red/white/red separated horizontally, maple leaf inside blue diamond in centre Uniform Formation Patch - diamond, blue 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknight (DC) Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Ok, then a list of divisions with whatever battalion or regiment (depending on the nation) fall under them. Ideally I'd like to be able to do badges and shoulder patches at least for the tankers. Have any info on helmet markings? Mord. Most British/Canadian infantry battalions that used helmet markings had them on the side of the helmet, so you'd only see them in profile. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 So....when will I get my grubby mitts on this masterpiece of mod :cool: Sometime. Don't know for sure. Possibly next week...maybe. Most British/Canadian infantry battalions that used helmet markings had them on the side of the helmet, so you'd only see them in profile. Yah...it's a design element. Used them with the Germs and liked them so I wanted to try them on the CW guys. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted April 1, 2012 Author Share Posted April 1, 2012 Just so you know I haven't been slacking...Had some slow down with the CW guys so I jumped on these in the mean time...couple new additions to the line up. Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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