Volksgrenadiers

[Bigduke6]

That was probably from the unit history of the 737th TD right? I seem to remember they were famous somehow.

[JasonC]

The US army green books, The Lorraine Campaign, by Hugh Cole. Yes it is available online. Any CM fan who doesn't already know about the US center for military history, look here -

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/online/Bookshelves/WW2-EAME.htm

[Sirocco]

Originally posted by blue division:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sirocco:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by blue division:

What other things can you come up with now?

The opposite to pure drivel.

You are Mr. Tittles, aren't you? </font>

[flamingknives]

I'd say that Wartgamer is Mr. Tittles/ whoever he was before that.

blue division isn't, AFAICT, as we've not all been drowned under a sea of semi-relevant googled-up sources with little or no explanation yet. The style is familiar though. The entity is a master of the strawman argument.

[Sirocco]

You might be right. He had a tendency to hold onto bizarre theorems, too, though. I thought WG was more likely to be Username?

It's hard to keep track of these returnees.

Whoever it is, JasonC alone has nailed this subject time and again, let alone all the other contributions.

[flamingknives]

I thought that Mr. Tittles was Username.

[Sirocco]

Now I'm really confused.

[Bigduke6]

JasonC, That's incredible, thanks. I'm really more of an East Front person meself but that's one heckuva archive.

[blue division]

Originally posted by Sirocco:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by blue division:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sirocco:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by blue division:

What other things can you come up with now?

The opposite to pure drivel.

You are Mr. Tittles, aren't you? </font>

[blue division]

Hang on, weren't VG divisions equipped with SMG's?

[blue division]

Come on, let's have the responses from the Gang Of Four please

[flamingknives]

The four horsemen?

Lessee if I can remember them:

Berlichtigen: Death

Andreas: War

Dorosh: Famine.

????: Plague

That'll be a no, then.

Anyhoo, weren't you telling us how SMGs were utterly ineffective at ranges over 10m? I can throw a banana that far.

[rleete]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

Anyhoo, weren't you telling us how SMGs were utterly ineffective at ranges over 10m? I can throw a banana that far.

Hell, I can pee at least half that distance. Trust me, you don't want to be within range, especially if I've eaten asparagus.

I have a Marlin carbine, 9mm, in an aftermarket "bullpup" stock. Essentially a SMG. With open sights at 75 yards I can hit a plate sized target about 7 out of ten times, with fairly rapid semi-auto fire (not full auto). I have never been in the military, so maybe that doesn't count.

[Sergei]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

Dorosh: Famine.

????: Plague

No, you've got it wrong.

Dorosh is Plague, Emrys is Famine.

[flamingknives]

I thought that Dorosh had that thing about 'sending famine amongst you' in his sig.

Oh, yes, and we've still got the matter of the MP-40 being so much more rubbish than the 5 shilling apiece Sten, the weapon carried by the British Paras and Commandos.

[Andreas]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

I thought that Dorosh had that thing about 'sending famine amongst you' in his sig.

That's only because he does not want to go himself.

So it is Cabron after all. He must have found his meds. Someone needs to tell Seanachai.

[rleete]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

Oh, yes, and we've still got the matter of the MP-40 being so much more rubbish than the 5 shilling apiece Sten, the weapon carried by the British Paras and Commandos.

I've got plans (in .pdf format) for a sten MkII. The thing is so cheesy, it's amazing it doesn't blow up on the first shot. Except for the barrel/receiver, it's almost entirely sheet metal, and could be made by anyone who can form and weld.

[blue division]

Good to see you back, Andreas.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Andreas:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by flamingknives:

I thought that Dorosh had that thing about 'sending famine amongst you' in his sig.

That's only because he does not want to go himself.

So it is Cabron after all. He must have found his meds. Someone needs to tell Seanachai. </font>

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by blue division:

I still don't see how an MP40 is a serious weapon to equip your infantry with as a standard weapon.

Surely a 9mm cartridge is designed for very close range shooting - I thought its maximum effective range was 50m - and perhaps only 10m in practice. I also heard that it lacked stopping power - lots of stories about the enemy being shot repeatedly with 9mm rounds and it failing to have an effect on them.

Accuracy with the Stirling, which I trained on and fired, was about 100 metres. I think we fired on the 200 metre range, there was no need felt to have a larger range for SMGs. It was a 9mm weapon, by the way. We even had an indoor range for them before the days where we knew about lead pollution. It was a 100 metre range IIRC.

There is a difference between effective range and maximum range, though. An MP firing from 200 or 300 metres away will still drive you to ground, and do real damage should the bullet hit you.

Incidentally, flamingknives, Canada used the Sterling (actually called the C1 SMG, but the same weapon as the Brits used til 82) into the 1990s before finally being replaced with the MP5 in naval boarding parties, and the C8 carbine in Army units. JTF-2 might use the MP5 also, little is known about their organization and equipment. I doubt they use the C1/Sterling.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by JasonC:

He's an idiot, and we should stop wasting our time on him. He hasn't had a new argument in several pages now.

Ah, NOW you tell me. I shall stop then.

You master of the board, you.

I think John D. Salt and several others posted excellent information - was it YD who fired the 9mm full auto as a civilian? That was a good post, too.

I only had two mags to train with, and while I didn't hit the target at 50 metres, I did hit the Figure 12 right next to it. Can't remember if I did that on purpose or not...

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Andreas:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by flamingknives:

I thought that Dorosh had that thing about 'sending famine amongst you' in his sig.

That's only because he does not want to go himself.

So it is Cabron after all. He must have found his meds. Someone needs to tell Seanachai. </font>

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Andreas:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Andreas:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by flamingknives:

I thought that Dorosh had that thing about 'sending famine amongst you' in his sig.

That's only because he does not want to go himself.

So it is Cabron after all. He must have found his meds. Someone needs to tell Seanachai. </font>

[throwdjohn]

exactly what i was thinking andreas. in WWII, smgs had way more close range firepower than rifles. nowadays, no so sure. also when did it become a good idea to argue with jason c? he is a genius i take his words as truth until i find otherwise.

[Code13]

QUOTE]The other reason is of course that all of today's militaries have full-auto assault rifles that mean you can have your cake, and eat it too. [/QB]