Japanese Army Mods

[LongLeftFlank]

So this mashup is the result of a bit of mucking about with Photoshop for an hour or two -- my skills are very limited as you can see.

And before anyone gets excited -- no actual mod exists yet and I am not committing to doing one on any specific timetable. My skills at modding uniforms, kit and faces are even worse than my Photoshop skills, nor did I ever figure out that model swapping thing (paging Ryujin or Mord!). If any of you care to take a swing at any of this stuff, that would be super!

I really just slapped this up here to get a discussion going, and maybe inspire a subcommunity. First though, let's please be clear about a couple of things to avoid rehashing old arguments and derailing the thread.

1. Read their lips: BFC will never do a PTO CM game no matter how much we ask. They've been very very clear on this. So please let's not bring that up again.

2. Same thing with flamethrowers -- the game engine will have fires when they're dang good and ready. Yes, Virginia, you can do perfectly good PTO battles without flamethrowers, LVTs or Marines.

3. The CM editor is perfectly capable of representing pretty much every form of Pacific terrain (palm trees can be model swapped in from CMSF) except grass huts, bamboo thickets and volcanic caves. And the game will definitely run these kinds of maps so long as they don't get too big.

[LongLeftFlank]

So as I noted in a previous thread, CW Airborne light infantry make the best approximation to the IJA weapons-wise: the SMLE is reasonably close to their late war service rifle, the Bren is very close to the Nambu LMG, the Vickers (crudely) approximates an HMG and the 50mm mortar can stand in for the "knee mortar". The only sticky wicket is the Sten guns.

The smaller Brit squad size doesn't bother me, since I'd think 14 man IJA squads would be divvied up into smaller fighting sections anyway, especially in the jungle. Or you can just pretend they're depleted.

Also, by using modded Red Devils, I believe you can then have them fight regular British troops, although I haven't checked which models and textures are shared. Only problem is, they will talk like Brits.

Of the uniform textures available, the German M1943 seems to most closely resemble the IJA standard uniform tunic. I used MJKerner's nice Hermann Goering desert tan. The webbing is all wrong though -- looks like the Japanese mostly wore their belts crossed in front. I am assuming here that the German uniforms and K98 rifle would be model-swapped in to replace the British Airborne defaults.

The German jackboots can then be further modded to do that bandaged leg thing (whatever it's called).

The British airborne helmet looks pretty decent already as a Japanese infantry helmet (maybe lose the chinstrap) and would look even better with some retexturing to make the mesh broader. And recolouring.

And then there's the small remaining matter of those face mods. Oh, and voices (if I remember my Battle comics correctly though, most of what they said was either "Banzai!" or "Aieeee!")

In searching for source images, I found that Googling "Japanese soldier" or "Japanese infantry" seems to bring up more photos of soldiers committing atrocities than of troops in actual combat, and the combat photos are heavily from 1930s Manchuria/China.

Here's one reasonable shot from the Pacific theatre (New Guinea, 1943). Poor young kids look scared to death.

IJA 5th Division, Malaya

[Erwin]

While I'm not a fan of Pacific War (and the TV series did a good job illustrating why) it is pretty neat what you are doing. And of course chaps with British accents are the appropriate "villains de jour" so no problem there.

I just think we need your superb talents more in CMSF, CMA and CMSF.

[LongLeftFlank]

Well here's the thing: it seems the majority of CMers focus on the tank vs tank fights and/or on full company+ frontal assaults and barrages.

Me, I like nothing better than a platoon+ fight in complicated LOS-unfriendly terrain, either WeGo or RT with lotsa pausing. I don't mind spending 20 minutes winkling out a sniper -- that's interesting to me. And to me AFVs are basically gun platforms.

So the PTO definitely appeals to me for the same reasons many (most?) of you dislike it. But as I said in the OP I really don't want to spend this thread arguing whether or not this is worthwhile. If it ain't your cup of sake, move along and best of luck!

[M1A1TC]

Could you please let me know how to import palm trees and/or buildings from CMSF into CMBN?

Thanks

So this mashup is the result of a bit of mucking about with Photoshop for an hour or two -- my skills are very limited as you can see.

And before anyone gets excited -- no actual mod exists yet and I am not committing to doing one on any specific timetable. My skills at modding uniforms, kit and faces are even worse than my Photoshop skills, nor did I ever figure out that model swapping thing (paging Ryujin or Mord!). If any of you care to take a swing at any of this stuff, that would be super!

I really just slapped this up here to get a discussion going, and maybe inspire a subcommunity. First though, let's please be clear about a couple of things to avoid rehashing old arguments and derailing the thread.

1. Read their lips: BFC will never do a PTO CM game no matter how much we ask. They've been very very clear on this. So please let's not bring that up again.

2. Same thing with flamethrowers -- the game engine will have fires when they're dang good and ready. Yes, Virginia, you can do perfectly good PTO battles without flamethrowers, LVTs or Marines.

3. The CM editor is perfectly capable of representing pretty much every form of Pacific terrain (palm trees can be model swapped in from CMSF) except grass huts, bamboo thickets and volcanic caves. And the game will definitely run these kinds of maps so long as they don't get too big.

[Erwin]

"I don't mind spending 20 minutes winkling out a sniper -- that's interesting to me."

I mostly agree with that. Which is why it's odd that so many scenarios and campaigns feature such tight time limits.

A good scenario contains a collection of such mini-engagements that make up a larger scenario.

[Rottenknecht]

The JapMod is a great idea. I had pretty much the same thoughts about british paras and their Bren Guns. There have been JapMods for the old CMx1 Games and I loved them. But since Combat Mission Normandy came up I could not go on playing CMx1 infantry battles. The 3-man squads just look so antique. Unfortunately I can not be much of a help for making a mod. Have not tried it yet. But I still have some jap voice files and a pretty good Banzai-charge-sound from some other game.

For me these are the questions that need to be tackled for such a mod:

1. The palmtreething. How can palms be imported from CMSF?

2. When using the british paramodel for the japs, can these typical british amo pouches be taken off?

3. The riflemodel does not include bayonets. Can that somehow be added for the japs at least.

4. Can I use the model of a german 5cm AT-Gun to replace the british para AT-Gunmodel?

5. When using british infantry against japs how can I make sure that no brit is wearing this new Mark III steel helmet?

From what I have seen so far the modding of uniformtextures can be done with good results. There is already a good US Infantry Camo Version that looks somehow marinelike.

I hope very much that there are enough skilled people ready to go for that modding idea.

[LongLeftFlank]

"Jap" is a slang term these days as you know, although I'm sure you don't intend it that way. I encourage folks to either spell out "Japanese" or use IJA (Imperial Japanese Army) where possible.

I'm not the hypersensitive PC type or anything but I'd love to get some Japanese (or Korean) players engaged here if possible, so it would be good not to be greeting them with racist epithets, even unintentional.

Your other points are really good but I'll have to say more later.

[LongLeftFlank]

Could you please let me know how to import palm trees and/or buildings from CMSF into CMBN?

Thanks

It involves mucking about with a hex editor to "repoint" the game to different models, but beyond that you'd need to ask Ryujin or Mord or others who've done it. At one point I did see M1A1s rolling around the Norman countryside, but they were still really Shermans for game purposes. I also beliece that the CMBN Italian campaign mod swapped in CMSF trees, including palms and olives, for some of the smaller French ones.

Search for an old CMSF thread called "Model Swapping" for more info.

[Mord]

I am not as versed in the mod swapping as Ryujin...seems like every time I do it successfully I don't quite know how I got there. My mixed Combatant mod for CMSF is still a friggin' mystery to me. It wouldn't work right, I gave up for almost a year, came back to it, did something I can't remember and then it worked. I can tell you one thing, the infantry model LODs are different in CMBN than CMSF, hence the weird way I did the beret. As far as doing trees I have never messed with anything but infantry so I don't know where one would begin.

Mord.

[mjkerner]

Great minds think alike. I have been pondering the same, but only for personal use since I think it would look too funky. But I learned my way around PaintShop because of computer games...mostly this one...so a project like this could get me to try to figure out model swapping.

My thoughts were:

1. Use Brits for IJA, changing uniform color to mustard/ tan

2. Change US color to Marine sage/green

3. Paint/ texture US helmet to look like camo cover

4. Import trees from CMSF (I already did that with CM:A trees for CMBN to mod sdp's Italian mod even more...I'd have to look, but basically involved renaming some things and not using some of the items...twigs, I think)

5. Change color/ retexture log bunkers, trenches

6. Make desert isle map

7. Use half tracks in reverse to represent landing craft

8. Set most IJA to Regular/ green but all fanatic..SNLF would be Veteran or Crack...Korean laborers would maybe not be fanatic

9. Use reinforcements a lot...sprinkle them all over the place at different times, some attacking soe sitting tight. Should be quite a rip-roaring game.

@Mord, you crack me up!

[LongLeftFlank]

I am not as versed in the mod swapping as Ryujin...seems like every time I do it successfully I don't quite know how I got there. My mixed Combatant mod for CMSF is still a friggin' mystery to me. It wouldn't work right, I gave up for almost a year, came back to it, did something I can't remember and then it worked. I can tell you one thing, the infantry model LODs are different in CMBN than CMSF, hence the weird way I did the beret. As far as doing trees I have never messed with anything but infantry so I don't know where one would begin.

Awesome! I was hoping I'd smoke you out of the "Bunker" (since I can't burn ya out )

Is there any way you can take a shot at doing just the unmodded model swapping, to save me or MJK the bother of learning what a hex editor is, and how to use it? Here are the two most critical models I need swapped.

1. Uniforms. While Paras are the logical CMBN base force to mod up, since their weapons and helmets are the closest analog to IJA, I'd like to model swap in the German infantry tunic (or maybe the Luftwaffe one?), webbing/belt pouches, trousers and jackboots, as the cut resembles the IJA service uniform more closely than do the woolen British tunic, trousers and ankle boots with gaiters.

Once that's done, the jackboots can be retextured to get those WWI era puttees (look like bandages wrapped around the legs). And I can do some thinking on how to make the webbing look more Japanese (one strap crossing the front of the chest and frequently a satchel crossing the other way. Are there any models at all anyone can think of wearing satchels?).

2. Rifles. The late war Type 99 service rifles resemble a K98 more closely than a SMLE, so if you could swap the German model in that would be just peachy.

I can live with the Stens and Webleys.

[LongLeftFlank]

At this point I'm going to repost an insightful YankeeDog quote from another thread on this topic.

British are indeed probably the best choice to simulate Japanese, primarily because their small arms and other infantry platoon weapons are the closest, at least if you're you're talking about the better, late-war Japanese designs. Many Japanese units remained equipped with older, inferior weapons like the Type 39 rifle and the Type 11 LMG, and there is no real analog for these older weapons in Western WWII designs.

Best Japanese rifle of the war was the 7.7mm Type 99 rifle (the weaker 6.6mm Type 39 was alternate standard by the 1940s in the IJA, though many formations remained equipped with the Type 39 right up to the end of the war). The Type 99 is reasonably close to the SMLE in power and capability, with the mag size (5 vs. the SMLE's 10) probably being the most significant difference.

And the Type 99 LMG is indeed a close analog of the Bren. Same Mag layout and capacity, similar ROF, etc. Overall, though, the Type 99 was not as good a weapon as the Bren – it had significant jamming problems, among other issues.

And the Brit 50mm mortar is probably as close as you're going to get to the so-called "knee mortar."

SMGs are more problematic... the Japanese had a couple of decent designs, most notably the Type 100, but didn't produce or issue anywhere near as many of these as Western forces did. This is important because it dramatically reduces the short-range firepower of Japanese squads in tight terrain (such as jungle fighting). If using Brits to simulate Japanese, you'd need to search for British formations with few or no Sten guns.

MMG and HMGs are tricky, too. Most of the common Japanese designs, such as the Type 92 HMG were derived from the WWI-era French Hotchkiss, and used an unusual rigid strip feed not seen in other contemporary designs. Not sure there's really any Western analog for these weapons. Cyclic ROF was fairly similar to the Vickers, but otherwise I think the Japanese MGs were pretty clearly inferior – harder to operate, much more likely to jam, and lower practical ROF due to the unusual feed. The Type 92 was also very heavy -- much heavier than the Vickers -- so mobility is a significant issue.

As far as indirect support, suffice it to say that the Japanese were nothing at all like the Germans any of the other Western combatants. Their hardware was very different, and in general their system of organization and communication was far inferior. Details are complex, but in general, you’d want to represent fewer tubes, slower response, and lower ROF than from comparable Western formations.

TOE is another large topic… In general, Japanese squads were large (13 man squads were common), and plt. HQ units were often quite small – often, just 2 men, a Lt. and a Plt. Sgt. In at least one common rifle platoon TOE, the platoon also has 4 squads – 3 13-man rifle squads armed with rifles and an LMG, and a 13-man “grenadier squad”, which is really just a rifle squad, equipped with knee mortars rather than the LMG.

I dunno… take it for what you will. Someone who’s really desperate for PTO could cook up a reasonable facsimile of Japanese TOE, especially with the flexibility the CMBN editor give in attaching independent teams to platoons. It wouldn't be perfect, but would be playable.

[LongLeftFlank]

Great minds think alike.

2. Change US color to Marine sage/green

3. Paint/ texture US helmet to look like camo cover

...

8. Set most IJA to Regular/ green but all fanatic..SNLF would be Veteran or Crack...Korean laborers would maybe not be fanatic

I have no interest at all in tackling USMC, not least because any number of grogs would laugh me out of the room. You go ahead. It'll be enough of a challenge to get a creditable IJA force up and running; hopefully not on my own. My real sweet spot is maps.

As to Japanese morale, it wouldn't necessarily always be Fanatic although I doubt it would be less than Extreme except in cases where intense bombardment had unhinged them.

Also, by 1944 weren't SNLF rikusentai actually inferior to the regular IJA? -- long on fanaticism (and youth) but short on leadership and training. Kind of like the newer late war SS formations. Made them perfect candidates to sit on islands and die for the Emperor. In contrast, Yamashlta's army and some of the veteran formations that had fought in China were tactically formidable enemies, although consistently outgunned.

[LongLeftFlank]

Care for a little

while you mod? Kind of a Japanese Horstwessellied.

For the sake of peace in the Orient / No sacrifice is too great. Umm yeah, right....

....Also, for modding purposes, a few selected shots from a blog that collects them

China. I like how they wore their helmets over their field caps.

Guadalcanal, 1942. It clearly got cold at night up in the hills.

Shanghai, 1937. Is that some kind of Sten gun I see?

[Mord]

I had to come out of the bunker I am getting pasty from lack of sun light...needed some photosynthesis and a leg stretch.

Sorry, guys I tried this with my para mod and can't figure it out. I went back to it after Waffleman nudged my memory. I was gonna do a green beret mod and a red beret mod but the soldier LODs aren't the same as in CMSF...I couldn't get it took work. I wrote Ryujin and he said he hasn't messed with any of the CMBN stuff, so that was a dead end. I am at a complete loss on how it could be done.

The whole red beret mod as it stands is a complete hack job and the files are actually pointing back to the bmps in the Commonwealth brz not the one in the actual mod...I know this cause when I replaced the red beret in the mod with the green beret that Darknight Canuck posted, it won't show. He couldn't get it to show either.

I am stumped...it's gonna take someone more experienced in this kind of stuff to figure it out...if it can be done at all. BFC may have changed the structure so people couldn't do this sort of thing.

Mord.

[mjkerner]

Hey Mord, do you have link to a hex editor? I seem to recall looking at one from IL 2 days, but it was way beyond my ken in those days. I want to screw around with it just to see what it can do. Sounds like CMBN really changed the modeling or sumfink his time around. I noticed the CW truppen now have "skeleton" files...that's new.

[Mord]

Here ya go brother, this is the one I am using.

http://download.cnet.com/Cygnus-Hex-Editor-Free-Edition/3000-2352_4-10448945.html

Mord.

[mjkerner]

Thanks pal!

[LongLeftFlank]

the soldier LODs aren't the same as in CMSF...I couldn't get it took work. I wrote Ryujin and he said he hasn't messed with any of the CMBN stuff, so that was a dead end.

I am stumped...it's gonna take someone more experienced in this kind of stuff to figure it out...if it can be done at all. BFC may have changed the structure so people couldn't do this sort of thing.

Bummer, man. But on the other hand, something can definitely be done with AFVs.... roadiemullet swapped Leopards for Shermans a few days after release.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1260581&postcount=16

And I could swear I saw CMSF trees show up at some point, although I guess it wasn't in the Italian mod set.

[Mord]

Thanks pal!

No problem, man.

Your little clue about the skeletons folder sparked an idea but it didn't pan out...seems the skeletons are named the same as the LODs in the soldier unis folders.

Mord.

[mjkerner]

I myself am not a genius, but I inspire genius! Too bad your experiment didn't work out.

[LongLeftFlank]

Work just spiked again, so I'm probably CM-cold turkey for a while, but I encourage you guys to keep exploring this stuff. e.g. have you tried model swapping the palm trees?

[mjkerner]

LLF, I wuill check on that. As I mentioned, I did an almost straight bmp to bmp (sounds like a titty bar in here) with CM Afghanistan trees, so maybe model swapping is not needed?

[tdogg]

"Jap" is a slang term these days as you know, although I'm sure you don't intend it that way. I encourage folks to either spell out "Japanese" or use IJA (Imperial Japanese Army) where possible.

I'm not the hypersensitive PC type or anything but I'd love to get some Japanese (or Korean) players engaged here if possible, so it would be good not to be greeting them with racist epithets, even unintentional.

Your other points are really good but I'll have to say more later.

LLF I don't disagre with you here, you are totally right, but I doubt survivors of batan or thier families would care about being PC.