Battlefront Repository Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 This mission is an attempt to duplicate the most heavy fighting done by the 9th Company in the Battle for Hill 3234. The terrain has been scaled-down to be accommodated to the game engine. Great attention was paid to ensure historical accuracy, but all aspects of the real battle cannot be duplicated in the game. This is in no way based on the movie. Mujahideen take the place of the Special Sevices Group in this mission and there are conflicting accounts as to whether the Pakistani SSG was actually present. A big thanks goes out to Eddie who was able to implement this battle successfully into the CMA game. More... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Captain Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Oh oh oh!!! Thank you!!! I'll play it this weekend!! Perfect timing, four day weekend (well three actually considering I'll not have time to play Thursay) plenty of left-overs, wine and beer stocks are mighty full to bursting. I'm planning it already. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Sounds greatl. However I wish you'd explain more in the description who 9th Company is/was and what was the situation. (You seem to assume some knowledge and I have no idea.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrock1957 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Fantastic.... I just 3D Previewed the map... awesome.... Looking to play this sometime over the next few days.... Thank you.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Sounds greatl. However I wish you'd explain more in the description who 9th Company is/was and what was the situation. (You seem to assume some knowledge and I have no idea.) The 9th Company was one of the best and hardest fighting units to participate in the Soviet-Afghan war. There is a movie about 9th Company (with the same name) but it does not tell the real story of what happened in the Battle. An excerpt from Wikipedia: “As Operation Magistral went on, Soviet commanders wanted to secure the entire section of the road from Gardez to Khost. One of the most important points was the nameless hill designated by its height of 3234m, which was assigned to the 9th company of the 345th Independent Guards Airborne Regiment led by Colonel Valery Vostrotin. The 39 man company was landed on the hilltop on January 7, 1988, tasked with creating and holding a hilltop strong point from which to observe and control a long section of the road beneath and thus secure it for the safe passage of convoys.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Hill_3234 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SelfLoadingRifle Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Many thanks for this. CMA would seem to be both the most interesting AND the most under-rated of the three CM2 titles. SLR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 You are all welcome. I hope you will enjoy or have enjoyed the mission. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Further information on this topic: http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/documents/battle-for-the-hill.pdf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Interesting story. Would make a great campaign actually. Thanks... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SelfLoadingRifle Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Serious question: Why have the Russian MGs in this scenario been allocated so little ammunition? The 12.7mm HMG has only 300 rounds and the two PKs are even worse off with only 200 rounds apiece. This is in contrast with the riflemen who are (mostly) maxed out on ammo which would probably translate to approximately 10 mags each or in other words 300 rounds per man. Where I come from, the gun (GPMG or LMG) represents 50% of the firepower of a section or squad. The gun team would be carrying at least 600 rounds of link ammo, and the individual section or squad members would each be carrying approximately 100 rounds of link (as well as their own ammo) to be passed to the gunner when needed. Do the very low ammo levels of the Russian MGs reflect low historical ammo levels for these weapons in the actual battle, or is there some other reason for this? Just curious... SLR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrock1957 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 According to the Reference material - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Hill_3234 'The first attack at 1530 on January 7 was followed by one more attack until just before dawn on January 8, when the mujahideen withdrew leaving Hill 3234 still in the hands of the Soviet paratroopers. The exhausted and mostly wounded Soviets were nearly out of ammunition and would not be able to withstand a further assault' The scenario file has a start time 1700 on July... which would mean it was the second and final attack of the day... At first I thought that was what the Author intended (low supply) but upon investigation the Author has 'Full' Supply loadouts on all Red Units, but a 50% Headcount which seems to mean there are no ammo bearers and thus the low ammo... Maybe Author can chime in on this... I just started playing this (6 minutes in), so far so fun.. very well done, will keep ya posted... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Your scenario has a start time of 17:00 on July?:confused: I checked my file and it says 7 Januari, so I don't know what happened here. Anyway, I have used some other information for this battle then wikipedia. According to this information there was one attack at 15:30, one at 16:10, one at 17:35 and the main attack took place at 19:10. I used the last time at first since this is the attack that I attempted to simulate. But the Soviets (player forces) could not see anything coming because of darkness. The same goes for the computerplayer forces. So I had to change the time. Since there has already been some fighting before this mission there should be less ammo for some units. So Fredrock1957 is right on the 50% headcount and thus low ammo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrock1957 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Your scenario has a start time of 17:00 on July?:confused:Opps... Brain Freeze... it is January... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrock1957 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Since there has already been some fighting before this mission there should be less ammo for some units. So Fredrock1957 is right on the 50% headcount and thus low ammo.As a designer, this concept of a lower headcount on a 'fortified' or 'static' position bothers me... There are many time I have chopped headcounts on defensive positions for the AI side of a battle... and to be honest, I never thought to look for the reduced ammo... I always figured that was more or less controlled by the Supply Attribute... I do understand that lower Headcount will mean some less Ammo but the numbers seem to indicate that the ammo load will go down the same if not more then the headcount percentage... Something for designers to take notice of... I need to check this for CMSF and CMBN also... As far as the mission I did set small cover arcs on my MG teams to preserve the ammo for main threats... so far so good on the battle... I am still really impressed with the map... excellent job 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 If the headcount for a unit is set to 50% it seems to me the ammo load out is about one third of the original, in this case anyway. The Soviets had only 38 men left when this attack started so I had to cut the size of the purchased units in half to get to that number. Maybe I could have tried to do this in another way since I did not take into account this much loss of ammuntion for the HMG's. But you were wise to set small cover arcs as you will need your ammo. And thanks for the compliments on the map! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SelfLoadingRifle Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 As you can surmise, I am not a scenario designer (well not yet, but give me time!) Anyway... from the recent posts, am I right in saying that despite the maxed out ammo graphics, the riflemen are really down to about 3 mags each? Answers please Eddie and Fred. If so, one would expect the MG ammo to be correspondingly low, so 200 - 300 rounds per gun would seem about right. SLR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrock1957 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 As you can surmise, I am not a scenario designer (well not yet, but give me time!) Anyway... from the recent posts, am I right in saying that despite the maxed out ammo graphics, the riflemen are really down to about 3 mags each? Answers please Eddie and Fred. If so, one would expect the MG ammo to be correspondingly low, so 200 - 300 rounds per gun would seem about right. SLRWell the Rifle Squads in this fight have 100% headcount and ammo (On the AK-74S)... I made the Headcounts 50% and the ammo load stayed the same... but as soon as I made the supply scarce the ammo load went to about 30-40% of full... This leads me to believe that Ammo Loadouts for MG Teams are handled differently then for a Rifle Squad... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Well the Rifle Squads in this fight have 100% headcount and ammo (On the AK-74S)... I made the Headcounts 50% and the ammo load stayed the same...It could be you only selected the description "1st Platoon Air Assault, 2nd Platoon Air Assault or 3rd Platoon Air Assault" of the 9th Company in the list of Activated Troops. In this case one can read that these units have a "Full" headcount. If one opens one of the platoons and selects any of the squads, Rifle teams or HQ's it will turn out the units have a headcount of 50%, well, this should be so anyway. So all units on the map already have a 50% headcount at the beginning of the mission. This leads me to believe that Ammo Loadouts for MG Teams are handled differently then for a Rifle Squad... I agree with you on this one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrock1957 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I finished this off and the battle was different from what I am use to. There is plenty of action and tactical decisions, especially timing and placement of Arty... but as the defender you basically have no Movement per se, except for some HQ's that arrive as reinforcment... As far as reflecting what happened historically I think it is spot on... Overall a great example of a recreation of a historical occurance... Thanks for creating it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai007 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I don't know what it is, but the battles in CM:A just seem like a whole lot more fun then the battles I have played in the other games of the CMx2 series. This is probably because CM:A is still pretty new to me, something to kill the time until the Commonwealth module for CMBN. Best money I've spent in a while!!! I really get into these battles, and the balance seems to be spot on, which is most likely a result of the bitter fighting that took place during this war. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 From those rather good results you'd think the Soviets would get more than a Tactical Victory. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Thanks for the feedback on this mission. Fredrock1957: good work! Only four men killed and two wounded, you got a better result then I did myself. Thanks for posting your AAR. You say the HQ's appeared as reinforcements? How can this be?:confused: This was not supposed to happen, I will take a look and see if I made a mistake somehow. No need to thank me for creating this mission, you are welcome. By the way, Vin suggested the idea for this mission so he deserves credits as well. Erwin, I agree with you. Fredrock1957 scored more then twice the points then the computerplayer, so this tactical victory should be a minor victory at least. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrock1957 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Thanks for posting your AAR. You say the HQ's appeared as reinforcements? How can this be?:confused: This was not supposed to happen, I will take a look and see if I made a mistake somehow. I received 4 HQ at around the 80 minute mark, also received Air Support Units earlier in the battle... All 4 HQ's appeared in the NW corner of the map... It didnt seem right when it happened, and I really didnt do much with them in the 10 minutes I had them.... I went back to see if I had the save games but I scrapped them along the way to save space... Again I thought the battle was excellent... The constant determination of just how much firepower to lay on the enemy to surpress vs calling for Arty while you have them surpressed is a tough thing to do... At the end I was basically out of ammo across the board... A great fight, I wouldnt change a thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai007 Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Uploaded with ImageShack.us These are my results for the mission. Granted, my difficulty mode is enough to make some laugh. I reasoning is this, it's a game, in real life a single person would never have to command every single fire team if he is the company commander. So, to make up for this overload, I think the spotting shared by all is enough to balance things out. If I could have the spotting like this and with realistic arty call times, I would be all over it. Any ways, I lost more troopers then the other poster, but pulled out a major victory, how is this??? My recon unit really did all the work. They would spot enemy troops with their night vision with a tight fire arc (150 meters or so) and then I would use the FO or the HQ to call in fire while keeping them as suppressed as possible with area fire. I feel the GP-30 launchers were best for this. I lost two men to their opening bombardment, and until they stormed the eagles nest, that was it! I wasn't even aware of the muj being so close to my HQ until grenades landed in the trenches. They fought their butts off, but it wasn't enough, and they were two men from being wiped out. Friendly air took a man as well, but the destruction to the enemy was far worse, they suffered over 300 killed and wounded over all!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 To Fredrock1957: I checked my file and the HQ's in the NW were clocked on 3:00 hours playing time. So I don't understand what happened. I'm beginning to have doubts if I send Vin the completed file. Anyway, I have got to stop saving the same missions under different names. But I wont make any changes to the file. I'm glad you enjoyed the fight and thanks for the compliments. To Sakai007: Thanks for posting your AAR, and I'm not laughing at you because of the difficulty level you were playing the mission. Your explanation for playing on that level makes perfect sence to me. You had 45 more points then the computerplayer, and Fredrock1957 had 30 points more. So you have scored 15 points more, this would make the difference between a Tactical Victory and a Major Victory. I see you have used your recon units in the right way by letting them pinn down the Muja's while calling arty on them at the same time. The opening bombardment should give random result, at least it did during testing. Sometimes a few casualties would occur, the other times there were no casualties at all. So I guess you had some bad luck with this. I understand the Muja's did their best to capture that Eagles Nest, but your defending skills made this impossible. You have made the opposing force pay dearly for trying to capture that hilltop. Congratulations on your victory. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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