tactics - infantry in woods

I am finding I am losing more men than the enemy by having to be the attacker and trying to clear out the enemy in large section of woods. I would at least like to get even odds.:confused:

It appears I need suggestions on how to use my infantry in trying to clear out the enemy infantry.

Looking for suggestions that does Not include arty or armor. This is an all infantry affair.

1) If you know there are inf there and you have arty, use that first.

2) Try recon with a couple of guys. It's harder for the enemy to spot 2 guys than a squad, so they may be able to sneak up.

3) If distances re not great try using SLOW with frequent waypoints and PAUSE commands each for 20 secs to a minute to see if you get a generic enemy icon at least.

4) Try to locate the end of his line so you can concentrate forces to roll up his defense along the line/flank rather than towards it.

(But, then you are a an experienced player, so you probably do all that.)

4) Try to locate the end of his line so you can concentrate forces to roll up his defense along the line/flank rather than towards it.

Good idea. Also, if you can come at him from more than one direction, you stand a better chance of achieving firepower superiority.

Michael

Check conditions for wind strength and direction.

Lead from upwind side with all units that can pop smoke.

Upon contact, pop smoke.

Allow screen to spread.

Move your force into screen.

When the curtain goes up, you have fire superiority.

-

You should have 3:1 superiority to have a chance at success, any less and it will be tough... All the above mentioned posts are really good things to consider

I just got absolutely pasted by a couple of krauts with an mg42 and an STG44 in a forest. I was attacking from all sides with 2 full platoons but getting slaughtered. I thought "I wonder if theres anything about forest fighting on the forums, probably not" And voila 3rd thread from the top 'infantry in woods' Some very helpfull advice, thanks guys.

1) If you know there are inf there and you have arty, use that first.

2) Try recon with a couple of guys. It's harder for the enemy to spot 2 guys than a squad, so they may be able to sneak up.

3) If distances re not great try using SLOW with frequent waypoints and PAUSE commands each for 20 secs to a minute to see if you get a generic enemy icon at least.

4) Try to locate the end of his line so you can concentrate forces to roll up his defense along the line/flank rather than towards it.

(But, then you are a an experienced player, so you probably do all that.)

(Try recon with a couple of guys)

This leads to two guys at some point being outnumbered even if they do spot and fire first. It can work at the end of a line though, likely even odds

( Try to locate the end of his line so you can concentrate forces to roll up his defense along the line/flank rather than towards it.)

I strongly believe in this, then I find that even if I have great odds attacking a flank , it seems grenades like to work against the man with odds. Two or three men at the end of a line throwng grenades seem to take out more attackers even if they have 3-1 odds or better. I have watched 5 go down to take out the three and the other 5 rattled, that is with them spread out as much as possible also.

Check conditions for wind strength and direction.

Lead from upwind side with all units that can pop smoke.

Upon contact, pop smoke.

Allow screen to spread.

Move your force into screen.

When the curtain goes up, you have fire superiority.

-

good suggestion, I was wondering two things here. Do we have infantry units that have smoke. Had not noticed.

Second, Since Arty was out, not a likely answer. But if arty was in with smoke. laying a smoke screen to move closer and then have sure contact when it lifts seems fine for getting rid of enemy forward units. But if I am going to bother with a heavy smoke screen, would not just swarming the area with troops during the smoke screen to outnumber and get into close combat distance be better at getting things in my favor and dislodge and kill more enemy.

Wonderful idea to have a plan, but a single bad ass can ruin your whole day - no one recall Herr Probst?

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=96469&page=51

there is also another posting right after about my experience when von Kleist decided to show me how to kick defender butt in forest terrain.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=96469&page=52

I will tell you one thing that does not work. Trying to area fire and pin the enemy while other units move in closer to get a good spot and shot. I have found that the guys area firing become spotted if possible from the enemy and then are taking good aimed fire from the enemy. Of course this is playing WEGO, so correcting that problem cannot be fixed with my quick micromanagement.

Second, it just seems very hard even if you do pour small arms fire into a area to really pin the enemy to a point to safely move other units in. Also if you do not lift the fire, friendly units do not seem to do well and not getting to a nervious or rattled state just because of the friendly fire close by.

Yes, most American infantry units have at least one squad that has the "pop smoke" icon illuminated.

Not so much Germans, and their smoke seems to be wimpier.

Scout Teams always have it. It's one of the reasons they are scout teams.

When you split your platoon up, make sure anyone that still has a lit-up smoke icon is upwind.

-----------

vehicles...

M8 Greyhounds and Shermans lay down excellent pop smoke. The Sherman cannon smoke is a tad wimpy though.

Pumas have pop, vanilla PSW does not.

--------------------

I know you have no arty this go 'round, but in the future consider the American 107mm mortar battery. Best Smoke-to-HE ratio I have found yet. On Limited ammo it is almost 50/50.

personnally, I cannot wait to be a defender against someone where I hava a big patch of woods to put my infantry in that will aid in my defence. I have yet to have anything like that in H to H play. But I have plenty of Devilish plans for when I do get the chance.

hehe.. funny you should say that sly.

stay tuned to the maps and scenario forum in the next few days.

"The Hurtin' Forest" (groan) working title

Trenches, bunkers, pillboxes... all in a nice thick wrapper of forest.

I will tell you one thing that does not work. Trying to area fire and pin the enemy while other units move in closer to get a good spot and shot. I have found that the guys area firing become spotted if possible from the enemy and then are taking good aimed fire from the enemy. Of course this is playing WEGO, so correcting that problem cannot be fixed with my quick micromanagement.

Second, it just seems very hard even if you do pour small arms fire into a area to really pin the enemy to a point to safely move other units in. Also if you do not lift the fire, friendly units do not seem to do well and not getting to a nervious or rattled state just because of the friendly fire close by.

Nope. You're right. Doesn't work. I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that nothing does. You're screwed. Woods are just no-go areas.

I got a major victory in School of Hard Knocks. But I STILL can't work out how to attack through woods...

Woods are just no-go areas.

At least heavy ones with very limited visibility. Best to bypass them if you have that option and screen them from good defensive positions. Then if your opponent wants to make trouble for you, he has to come out to play.

Michael

M8 Greyhounds and Shermans lay down excellent pop smoke. The Sherman cannon smoke is a tad wimpy though.

The advantage of the cannon smoke is that you can put it quite far away - eg in front of a bunker or even to some extent within the wood

I know you have no arty this go 'round, but in the future consider the American 107mm mortar battery. Best Smoke-to-HE ratio I have found yet. On Limited ammo it is almost 50/50.

The 107 were allocated to the "Chemical Mortar" battalions and were often used to provide smoke screens (at least from what I've read up to now).

So far, I am finding, if I can get into a fire fight where both sides see each other, normally both sides take causualties and one or both sides crack and run or are in a panic or near panic state. So then I can move a reserve unit up to take my unit spot to finish the job or move up farther and capture some ground if I have seen the enemy flee. But in general it is hard to even get even odds in losses if you are the one doing the moving, no matter what approach I am trying. But I am going to sit down and do some testing with smoke to see what can be adcheived. But in a good size patch of woods, it is a good location where it is hard to get outside ordanace to be able to place it. But all things are possible.

The 107 were allocated to the "Chemical Mortar" battalions and were often used to provide smoke screens (at least from what I've read up to now).

But if you use the 107 (4.2 inch) mortars, be sure you also have an FO unit -- because only an FO can call in missions for them. Even a battalion commander doesn't have sufficient authority to use them and they will show up "denied" his fire support window.

Q: How do I clear the enemy in a forest like this?

A: The key is

a little

fire support,

namely over a thousand 305mm battleship artillery shells.

Looking for suggestions that does Not include arty or armor. This is an all infantry affair.

But where's the fun with that?

The Royal Navy can get you out of all sorts of trouble.

Lacks a bit of subtlety though...

I'm loving the fact that the difficulty of fighting in woods ranks as a difficult enough problem that "calling the navy" is even on the list of possible solutions...

I have mentioned this before in other threads, How infantry is so much more brittle than they were in CMx1. So I am a firm believer in using any assets and ordanance to do the work. I would love to only use my infantry to hold ground or mop up left overs. But that just cannot always be the case. At times they have to be the solution to the problem. And I am actually enjoying the struggle of trying to get them to clear the woods against a force with no real assistance.

I am interested in finding out if I had infantry that carried smoke that I could have used to help in this situation. I did not think of that. When it comes to other ordanance, Smoke is not my first option. If I can get it to hit where I want it in the woods, I would much rather see HE exploding, than dumping smoke to help try to move my infantry up into place.

But smoke test are still in order just to see what one can do.

But smoke test are still in order just to see what one can do.

Not a test but some recent experience. Smoke worked pretty well for me in Chance Encounter (for CMBN). In my case the smoke screen was laid down by two Shermans. So, technically that violates your conditions but I was not able to use the Shermans for close support because the had to be in a position to protect the infantry from the StugIIIs as they crossed the open ground.

I used the Shermans' smoke rounds to put a screen along the wood line as deep as the Shermans' could fire - between two to three actions spots into the woods. Then the platoon crossed the open field with one squad and an MG offering supporting fire. It worked pretty well. The screen was not perfect so my guys took some fire but made it in pretty good order - not perfect but pretty good. When the screen lifted all hell broke loose and the Germans went running back into the woods and my guys went running back into the open ground. Thankfully not too far and most of them were still in pretty good shape so I was able to turn them back around in head back into the woods. Now it is an infantry fight in the woods. I think I hurt them more then they hurt me but I am not sure yet.

Q: How do I clear the enemy in a forest like this?

I should think a kiloton-sized nuke would make a good start.

Michael

When it comes to other [ordnance], Smoke is not my first option.

It often is mine. If my batteries carried more of the stuff, I'd use it almost all the time. If you have to cross an open space of more than half a dozen ASs, smoke makes all the difference in what shape they are in when they arrive. Plus, if it's WP smoke, it can force the enemy out of their positions when HE won't, as long as you lay it right on them.

Michael