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Will S

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  1. I normally try to not get involved in forum discussions, because I find they devolve into petty back and forths, however as the opponent on the opposing side I'd like to contribute my view and hope to provide some clarity and some thoughts that may have been overlooked. First off, I don't see anything from my perspective in the game, or based on Bull's explanation that points to any sort of bug or needs any review. He asked me to submit my turn and password for review, which I declined. But I'll give my perspective. The game is early morning in winter. Visibility is very short, infantry has been making contact at less than 100m, in some cases infantry has been within 50m before being noticed. Firing and muzzle flashes change that of course, and a unit firing can be seen at a much greater distance, as can units moving at a faster or more noisy pace. (Also unit makeup, type, experience, quality, motivation, proximity to command, movement or lack there of ALL have input into how one unit functions compared to another. So there is almost no such thing as an apple to apple comparison in this game.) The LOS line tool shows a blue line going out much further than what visibility actually is, and this is in keeping with what I have seen in all other CM games. The blue line is a guide, which I use as a best case guide, not as a sure thing indicator. If a unit saw another at 900m through trees that is quite amazing and in this game I would not expect that to happen repeatedly or for that occurrence to be a tell tale for how other units should spot. Maybe that unit had a brand new pair of binocs, or there position was just right to see through a small gap in the trees and they caught a muzzle flash. Maybe the units closer didn't have binocs, or their's were fogged up, dirty or otherwise not 100%, or maybe they didn't have any. Maybe the unit that did good spotting was a very experienced unit and maybe the other one wasn't, or maybe that had nothing to do with it. Maybe they were occupied more with their immediate situation, or they were communicating their next plan since they were in close proximity to enemy forces and not paying attention to what was going on further away. Maybe the terrain, (which is not level) somehow obscured their view from the position they were in, or maybe the snow was really deep where they were and they were dealing with that. Maybe they dug themselves a snow hole to keep their heads down from the mortar shrapnel falling to their rear and couldn't see out. Maybe maybe maybe maybe.... Having myself spent a significant portion of my life in forest, wilderness, mountains, very deep snow of all qualities, I can say with 100% certainty that sometimes dealing with your immediate situation is all encompassing and in the real world there are micro features and small terrain undulations that can not be modeled in this game, but would most certainly exist in the world that this game is supposed to model. As for the unit that broke and ran toward the "enemy side of the map", I feel there are some details in the explanations that have been left out. Like most people, I have seen this undesirable behavior before in CM games, but I also believe that in this instance there are more factors in play. The American unit that broke and ran toward German lines had few or no better options. The American attack was coming along the extreme map edge, and attacks that come against the map edge like that put themselves in a position that severely limits their maneuverability and options and puts the force in a bad spot to begin with. So out of all possible directions, 180 degrees of space was not available to the unit in question. Out of the remaining 180, there was an exploding and burning tank behind them as well as mortar shells falling in the same direction a bit further behind the destroyed tank. So take away the 60 degrees of area that would have been directly toward the American lines. The next area, off the unit in questions left flank, are buildings where contact has been made between forces and potentially might give cover to more German units. So that isn't a good direction for the American unit to run. Take away another 60 degrees on their left. This leaves the remaining 60 degrees to their front, where nothing is exploding and no enemy troops are immediately obvious or in hiding, although it is toward the German "side" of the map the area to the units immediate front does not offer good cover to enemy. Due to the unit having such limited movement against the map edge, there is very little choice (especially good choice) in which to move. The unit broke and ran forward along the map edge, which is the only path that moved them away from exploding tanks and shells and not closer to an area of cover and concealment that one could easily assume housed enemy troops. Pretty much from what I have seen the unit was in a very bad spot, against the map edge, close to enemy occupied buildings, under fire, and unsupported. With that much going against them it would have been difficult to choose a better option, and definitely not the AI bugging out from what I see. Now I'm not saying the retreat function can't be improved, it definitely can. I just think that in many instances in which people complain about any one of the many topics that get complained about, there are many factors that get overlooked or go unaccounted for. There are so many factors in this game that relying on any one, or complaining about any one to me seems to be losing the overall focus and tactical thinking that leads to success. I am not a programmer but I would think that maybe a way to deal with the retreating forward syndrome would be to have the default fall back option to be along the most recent path of advance that the unit took, since most likely the path of advance was along the most conducive and unexposed path available to that unit. I also really don't like it when an unbuttoned tank commander gets shot by small arms fire (happens very easily) and then the standard response is for the tank to pop smoke and retreat, often into a more exposed position than they were in. That is one aspect I feel could be improved. Tanks should not retreat in the face of small arms fire. (Just saying that because I know IanL has a direct line!) When I have one of those "WTF?" moments, I try and sit back and think about all the possible things going on I can't see in the game. I also try to think about how I could have commanded my units better and not allowed my men to get in a bad position to begin with. Usually I come up with a list of how I could do better that is longer than how the game could be better. Other times it's just straight bad or good luck depending on your perspective and luck is also a real world phenomenon, but I have found looking closer at how I could command better and use better tactics gives me less of a chance to have bad luck, or have bad luck effect me in a significant way. I know that the game being talked about is still in it's early stages and that both sides have significant forces that have not been engaged.
  2. So after I made this post my Firefly's started using their APDS rounds. The 57mm AT guns never did, and each one put 5-8 shots on target at around 700-800m before they were destroyed by the tanks they were shooting at.
  3. Wondering if anyone else has run into this problem, and if so are there solutions? I am playing a game with Brits against a well stocked German foe. I have some fireflys, as well as some 57mm AT guns. Both of these units are supplied with APDS rounds, which are more lethal against the thick German armor. My units have had ample opportunity to fire them, and have sent many AP rounds into German tanks. They have not however fired any APDS rounds. This is frustrating because it seems the prime time to use your best ammo would be when engaging heavy armor. Of course my AP rounds just bounce off the German tanks and they casually drive into the open, taking hit after hit and then obliterate my units with one shot. Why have APDS rounds in the game if they won't be fired? Am I missing something?
  4. Yeah Mos, I have floating Icons off in the image you were referring to. These screenshots are from an ongoing battle, plus my destroyed tank would not have an icon anyway. The image below should give you a good idea. In it you can see the destroyed Sherman, and the icon for the Panther that shot it. It is the same Panther you reposted, it has not moved, and you can also see the buildings that are between the two tanks. When the Panther shot the Sherman the tanks were in view of each other according to the icons, even though there is a row of obvious blocking buildings between them. Ditto for the panther at the Shermans 2, it was fully spotted and shot at through the building on the Shermans right. Like I've been saying, its like the game just does not detect the buildings in this one. I wish I had gotten a video when I had the chance. It's a PBEM game and turns get deleted as I go through them. Tried to set up another QB, but since I can only play one side it didn't work out right. Version 4, updated and patched to latest everything, opponent has the same. I know there have been other weird bugs CM has fixed in patches. Disappearing tanks in a CW campaign comes to mind as something a bit similar to this. Just trying to disseminate knowledge so if there is a big it might be fixed for future.
  5. I agree, I think it's a great game, and yes it's not perfect. I never stated or asked that it be a perfect sim of real life so I'm not sure where you got the idea that was my point. However I would think there should be some standard of cover behind huge buildings, and since I have never seen an event like this in many CM games I decided to post. When armor rounds can go through not one but multiple buildings like they aren't there it seems to me more than just a game eccentricity. I understand LOS imperfection. Like I stated in the first scenario where rounds went through walls, since the rear of the tank was partially visible, I chalked it up to LOS imperfection and didn't think much of it. The second time when armor was pegged from two OpFor tanks, both which sent rounds through walls and none of my tank was hanging around a corner, that it was not LOS quirk and that's why I'm posting here. The OpFor tank was also clearly visible to infantry even though it was fully concealed behind not just one but an entire row of buildings. I would think it's not too much to expect solid objects to act as such. If you are playing a game in which buildings are prevalent they will be used as cover. If those buildings routinely do not stop rounds, and can be seen through as if they aren't there, it does take away from the game. Only way to fix it is to speak up. I also have no idea what WYSIWYG means.
  6. So I got photobucket, hope it works out. This is the OpForce Panther that put a round into my tank, that was directly in front of it about 200-250 meters away. You can't see where my tank is cause of the building. This is also the tank my infantry spotted as if the buildings on the tanks left were not there. My infantry was ~400 meters away to the tanks 10 o'clock, approximately equal elevation. This is my destroyed tank. (Trees are off for viewing) The German icon at its 12 is the tank in the above photo, and also one of the two that put rounds into it. This shows the second OpFor tank that a put rounds into my tank through the closest building. My tank was forward a few meters specifically to put the building between it and the OpFor tank at its 2. It was then hit from it's 12 from a round that went through a building (see previous photo). I forget if the tank at it's 2 put a round through the closest building, or just hit it when it reversed, but I think it did put a round through the building that should have fully provided cover for my tank.
  7. Okay, this forum won't allow me to upload any more screenshots, says they exceed my allowance, even though the screenshots are all smaller than .49 mb. Is that my allowance for the entire forum? I'll try to post more info soon. The next shot was the really weird one, if I could get a screenshot up it would be obivous there was zero line of sight between the OpFor tank and the one it destroyed, as well as zero line of sight between it and my infantry that spotted it through a solid line of buildings.
  8. My tank spotted the OpFor tank it destroyed (it's tail was sticking out a bit behind the building, which is why I didn't think too much about it at first). My tank then put a few rounds into the side of the OpFor tank, through the building, and I believe it then reversed slightly, exposing more of itself and got the final KO. This is not a great screenshot, and does show the rear of the panther exposed but believe me the rounds were coming through that building. My tank took the shot on its own, full spotted icon. This was the shot I noticed was strange, but chalked up to game weirdness because the OpFor tank was not fully concealed. I don't have the turn saved still so a full video review is impossible, although I am going to set up a trial QB on this map to see if I can recreate the situation.
  9. Hi. This is my first post here but I am playing a game where there is a bug or something and wanted to know if others had experienced this. I am in a QB and there are some buildings which are on the map, but the armor can see through and shoot through as if they were not there. I have been able to spot an enemy tank with ground forces that should have been fully obscured behind a row of buildings. One of my tanks shot an enemy tank and hit it direct broadside through a building (the rear of the tank was exposed but that is not where the round hit, I thought it could be a minor glitch until the behavior was repeated). And one of my tanks was destroyed when it took rounds from two separate enemy tanks, both of which sent rounds through buildings that could be seen on the map, but obviously had no effect on blocking tank rounds. This was most definitely not a terrain or slope situation, all armor was behind buildings which should have fully concealed them from the surrounding terrain and viewpoints. Anyone have any thoughts? Is there a official way to report this to battlefront? Thanks!
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