Mr0Buggy

Given recent political climate, it's actually the Russians who are giving/offering support to the North much to Chinese displeasure. (or so I recall, unless I've heard wrong)

125mm shells compatible with T-72/PT-91 series in Polish service: APFSDS: 3BM-15: up to 340mm RHA at 2000m 3BM-22: up to 430mm RHA at 2000m "PRONIT": up to 540mm RHA at 2000m (reportedly a Polish clone/copy of the Israeli M711 Mk. 2 [CL-3579]) There was/is a program to develop a new shell, with expected 550mm to 610mm RHA at 2000m, however it's in a bit of a limbo for the moment. HEAT: 3BK-14 : 450mm (Manufactured in Poland) HE: 3OF19 3OF26 Unnamed HE shell, appears to be a downsized copy of 3OF19 with smaller weight and warhead (Manufactured in Poland) Photos: PRONIT: M711 Mk. 2 3BK-14: Unnamed HE shell: Gonna post up ammo for Polish Leopard 2's in some time, however I need to conduct some more research upon it.

Didn't Russia made a clear intent and plans to place Air Force base(s) on the Belorussian soil ? They were pretty (relatively) close to Polish borders too, that is until American Senate greenlit the JASSM deal for Poland. That made Russians revise their plans and then they moved them back outside potential JASSM range.

Thank you for welcome. I wish I could be more active in the community, however since I have not yet bought the Black Sea, my abilities and knowledge about inner game mechanics are somewhat limited. As for PL-01... Well, here's is somewhat a rant of mine about it. Short Version: hell naw. For a game ? Sure, but hell naw to irl service. Longer version: PL-01 is nothing more than a bit uparmored CV90, up to 5+ STANAG 4569, which is nothing impressive tbh. It's not even an MBT, more like a Light Tank or an AFV. As a technology demonstrator/proof of concept of the modules ? Sure. Testing of APS for potential future use on PT-91/Rosomak/future BWP/whatever ? Yes please! Testing of "Stealth" Tech for potential future use ? Sure. Full blown combat vehicle ? Eeeh. Fire support vehicle for infantry is a sound thing to be had (in limited numbers, most of the time you gonna have Armor support for those kind of things). 1. 105mm or 120mm issue: Poland being a post Warsaw Pact nation, it has never used any kind of 105mm shells. Introducing yet another shell standard (beside 120mm for Leos and 125mm for T-72/PT-91) would even further divide limited resources for Production and R&D, and further complicate supply chain in war time. Going for 120mm seems like the best way to go as (afaik, I'm not an expert) some money could be shared among it and Leo 2 munition programs. 2. Chassis: CV90 is a foreign product. Starting up it's manufacture would be yet another thing to spend money on. Technology transfer (something our military industry has a major hard on for) is an obvious plus, however it could be done without starting up full scale production. More obvious (and imho. better) choice would be acquiring a foreign turret (!! technology transfer !!) or developing our own (sorta unlikely, we still would need tech to make 120mm guns) and putting it up on the proven Rosomak chassis. 120mm could be a bit of a beast for it, but afaik it can be done, plus yet again, it puts less of a strain on the supply chain as we are getting/using Rosomak variants by the ton. Alternatively, the program to develop BMP-1 successor is also planned to be a modular chassis with a lot of possible variants akin to the Rosomak. If anything, there could be a variant which is PL-01 like in the future. As said, for a game it could be a curious quirky unit with interesting abilities, however for irl. it's a bit of an eh for above mentioned reasons (all of them imho of course).

Afaik, USMC M1's ain't that far off from Army ones. The went through the same/similar upgrades, though at later times. Not sure how much of an improvement are the 3rd gen. DU inserts over the 2nd gen. ones though.

Krab as a whole, is a potentially good and viable 155mm NATO SPG. The problem is, that for years, our industry could not provide a viable chassis for it (the turret is licensed copy of the AS-90 [or just imported wholesale, not sure]), There were cracks developing in those, and a myriad of other issues. Gov. officials finally wised up and said "thank you" (to put it gently) and then they made a deal with Samsung/South Korea to import K-9 Thunder chassis'es. We have about 8-ish Krab's that are functioning now, with the "original" chassis'es. They have some issues as I mentioned, however they do work and can make anyone's day a hell lot of worse if they put that 155mm on target. The current plan is to have AS-90 turret and K-9 thunder chassis mated in 2015/2016, tested through and through, and mass production to start the same year, with a Full squadron of 24 Howitzers becoming operational in 2017. There's also a program under development for Smart 155mm munitions. Also, feel free to ask even more questions. I'll post about Polish shells for T-72/PT-91's tomorrow.

There is no such thing as 2A5PL. There are plans for a Leopard 2PL, which is expected to be an unified set of upgrades of 2A4's and 2A5's to Leopard 2A7 like standard. And the first tanks scheduled for such upgrade are the 2A4's already in service, which are in more need of an upgrade than 2A5's that are arriving from Germany. Once all 2A4's would be upgraded, then it would be 2A5's turn. It's all a bit moot, because of the current cluster**** between potential German suppliers and Polish. gov, chances of seeing 2PL in action before 2017 are almost zero. What the heck is T-72EU ? The PT-91/T-72's are not scheduled for any major upgrades at this time. Ever since the Leo 2's became an option, funds stopped trickling onto Bumar and CO. for further funding for PT-91 related programs. Personally, I'd put PT-91 somewhere between T-72B with K1 and T-72B with K5, their overall combat worth wise. Not much, but still can pack a punch in a pinch. That depends. We have the super-duper F-16, and yet Poland is still sending only our Mig-29's for Baltic Air Policing missions. Anyone interested in more or less accurate potential Polish forces of 2017, I invite you to my oldie thread.

Hello there, I'm a new user here. Before I get on with the topic, here's a short introduction: I'm a long time gamer, and I started the Combat Mission series with the first initial games, mainly the Beyond Overlord, which I loved. After all these years, I came to learn that there are far more Combat Mission games, and that they have also gone for more modern settings (Cold War Afghanistan and Modern Syria) for few of their latest games. I have tried the demo of the two games, and I have fallen in love again. Then I heard of the latest upcoming iteration - the Black Sea - and here I am. I wished to get it done before the release, but school got in the way. Given the setting, as well as some rumors flying wildly about a possible future Module, I have decided to make the list you can see below. Please, by no means take it as me begging/pleading/ordering the Battlefront crew to include Poland in the game/future module. It's merely meant as a very general guide/refence, and to perhaps bring some interest of fellow tacticians to this country's armed forces, which usually are rather unheard of on the global scene. The list may not be accurate, it's a rough prediction of what might be around for Poland in 2017. It's based on plans (which have been outlined up to 2020), as well as news from the military industry around the globe, as the situation is dynamically changing day to day. Any mistakes are not an ill will, merely a mistake or a document being interpreted the wrong way. Please keep that in mind. Also it's not really meant as a proper reference, and please don't use it as such. Hence, I won't link any of my sources (majority which are in Polish anyway) as this list was made rather hastily. Should you require proper references (*wink wink, nudge nudge*), I will happily oblige as soon as I can (I have finals atm). Also, I cannot buy the Black Sea for the time being, but I hope to do so in the coming months. Now onto the goodies: Weapons and vehicles that are not (yet or otherwise) in service of Polish Armed forces, have names written in cursive. Infantry Weapons: Assault Rifles: Kbs wz. 1996 Beryl - 5,56 mm NATO Kbk wz. 1996 Mini-Beryl - 5,56 mm NATO (beside frontline service, also used by vehicle crews) Kbk AKM - 7.62x39 mm WP Kbk AKMS - 7.62x39 mm WP MSBS - 5,56 mm NATO and 7,62 mm NATO variants, should start entering service 2015/2016 LMG: RPK - in use in Airborne Force (limited) PK - various variants UKM-2000 - various variants, UKM-2000M to enter service in 2015, used by infantry as well as vehicle mounts Rheinmetall MG 3 - used on former Bundeswehr vehicles (Leopard 2A4/2A5 and respective ARV's) LMG variant of MSBS - 7,62 mm NATO, possibly to enter service in 2015 (image not available) HMG: WKM-B - Polish variant of the NSV MG, adapted to use .50 BMG NATO NSW - Polish variant of the NSV MG, still using the original 12,7 mm WP ammunition. In the process of being replaced by WKM-B Both used on variety of vehicles or standalone Sniper/Marksman rifles: SWD/SWD-M - Polish designation for SVD Dragunow. SWD-M is a Polish upgrade. 7.62x54 mmR WP Sako TRG (TRG-21 and TRG-22) - 7,62mm NATO Sniper Rifle Bor - Polish made, 7,62 mm NATO Sniper Rifle Tor - Polish made .50 BMG Sniper Rifle Granade Launchers: Underslung: wz. 74 Pallad/GPBO-40 - 40mm Granade launcher for Kbs wz. 1996 Beryl Standalone: Mk. 19 - on vehicles and tripod wz. 83 Pallad-D/GSBO-40 - single shot 40mm launchers RGP-40 - six shot revolver mag launcher. On order, should enter service in 2015 GA-40 - may enter service before 2017 AT Weapons Unguided: Carl Gustav M3 - (Airborne and Spec Ops forces only) AT4 - (Airborne and Spec Ops forces only) RPG-7 - in service, unknown which warheads are in service in the Polish Armed forces RPG-76 Komar (in storage, requested and used by forces in Afghanistan for smaller targets upon which RPG-7 (or other weapons) would be a waste) Guided: Spike-LR - Stationary launchers as well as launchers based upon HMMWV and ROSOMAK vehicles. 4km range, Fire & Forget, Fire Observe & Update, Lock-On After Launch - what more do you need ? 9K115 Metys - limited use by airborne forces MANPAD: GROM - reportedly a "copy" and vast improvement upon the Soviet designed 9K38 Igla. Several new versions made since then. Also used on variety of vehicles PIORUN - improved version of the GROM, should start entering service in 2015/2016 (launcher is reportedly the same, it's the missile that will be vastly improved) VEHICLES: MBT: T-72M1 - no major/significant changes since the Warsaw Pact times, it's an export variant of the T-72A produced in Poland under license (chances are if you are seeing one of those anywhere near a frontline, then you are within a stone's throw from the Warsaw), reportedly Polish made T-72M1 were of higher quality and make than average among the Warsaw Pact countries (mentioned in passing in a book or two). PT-91 Twardy variants: PT-91 - Polish Modernization of the T-72M1 PT-91M PT-91MA1 - Same as above, majority of modifications is internal, such as better Radios and better electronics. Leopard 2A4 - nothing much to say, not much different since the days of them watching over the Fulda Gap. They however have access to better ammo since those days. Leopard 2A5 - Unchanged since they rolled off the assembly line. They do have access to more modern ammunition though. Leopard 2PL - Poland has expressed interest to modernize our Leopard 2 fleet to 2A7+ like standard. First would go the 2A4's, then 2A5's. There are several proposals, but it's a bit of a mess right now (to say the least), hence it's doubtful it will be ready or deployed in a significant capacity within Polish Armed Forces before 2017. APC/IFV: BWP-1 - BMP-1D variant "Good" old BMP-1D. Not much to be said. (We used to have BMP-2 and BMP-2D but our idiot paper pushers sold them). A program to develop new tracked vehicle to replace BWP-1 has been initiated, but extremely unlikely to produce anything of substance before 2017. KTO ROSOMAK variants: ROSOMAK is a family of variants developed upon AMV PATRIA family. Rosomak - first initial variant, features Oto Melara Hitfist-30P turret, armed with 30mm autocannon ATK Mk 44 along with a coax 7,62mm UKM-2000C MG. Also equipped with Obra laser warning receiver connected to smoke granade launchers and an amphibious vehicle capable of swim. Rosomak-M1 – Modification for the needs of Chad and Afghanistan deployments. Changes include: additionf of Pilar "Fire direction detection" system, new and improved comm. systems, additional radio, two additional cameras on hull sides, connected to screen in infantry compartment. Water propellers have been removed, and the Vehicle was up-armored with Israeli Rafael Armor Package, bringing the vehicle to all around STANAG IV protection levels. Rosomak-M1M – further development of the version for Afghanistan Deployment. Changes from previous variant includes addition of American Qinetiq RPGNet, cabling and sockets to mount Duke IED countermeasure system and of Blue Force Tracking system (those systems are not integral part of this variant and were on loan from the US military). Infantry compartment went from 8 to 6 soldiers. This version has been up-armored by default by the original manufacturer, giving it the same STANAG IV protection levels as M1. Rosomak-M3 – version armored anologically to Rosomak M1. It's turret is armored up to STANAG III standard. The turret can carry WKM-B 12,7mm HMG or 7,62mm UKM-2000C MG or Mk. 19 40mm grenade launcher. Those vehicles usually carry either two of the above, one on the turret, second within the hull near the turret, allowing them to be swapped "on the go". Rosomak-S - unoficially called "Spajkowóz" (Spikewagon) – infantry carrier variant of the base version (ergo still capable of swim), equipped to carry 2 Spike LR launchers, a load of spare missiles, along their respective weapon teams. Otherwise unarmed. KTO Rosomak - Hitfist-30P turret with Spike LR variant and KTO Rosomak - Unmanned ZSSW-30 turret with Spike LR variant The former is no different than the Base Rosomak (aside from integration of the Spike ATGM with the turret) and has already been developed, built and tested, however the latter has been designated as next step in the Rosomak development hence the former most likely won't enter service. However (at the time of the writing) there only exists a first iteration of the ZSSW-30 turret, which is being tested, but is not integrated with the Spike ATGM yet, afaik only a mockup of the double launcher can be seen on the right side of the turret. As both vehicles, for all intents and purpouses, will serve the same role and function within the game, either could be added. KWWO Wilk - Kołowy Wóz Wsparcia Ogniowego (Wheeled fire support vehicle) (105/120mm) Prototypes exist but appears extremely unlikely at this point to enter service. Recon: BWR-1D and BWR-1S (BRM-1K and BPzV "Svatava" respectively) Basically a BMP-1 without ATGM, having somewhat better NVG's and optionally carrying a recon squad. BRDM-2M-97 "Żbik-B" Polish modification/modernization of the BRDM-2 vehicle. New turret, Obra laser warning receiver and smoke grenade launcher, new NVG's. Armed with WKM-B and a UKM-2000 as coax. Rosomak-R1 and Rosomak-R2 – Recon variants based upon the base Rosomak (hence still amphibious capable). Armed analogically to normal Rosomak, with 30mm AC and 7,62mm coax. No infantry carrying capacity. Crew compartment instead has been remodeled to house operators of additional equipment. Upon extendable 4 meter mast a FLIR System video camera, Thermal camera and laser rangefinder/target designation system were mounted, allowing for recon at the distance of up to 20 km. R1 variant has been additionally equipped with Turkish Aselsan ACAR Ground Surveillance Radar. Reportedly allowing detection of an infantry man from 12 km away, and vehicle group from 40 km away. Radar has been mounted on a mast behind the turret. Both has been equipped with additional camera with directional microphone. Tank Destroyers: BRDM-2 KONKURS Tumak-5 (M1045A2 HMMWV) with Spike-LR ATGM ROSOMAK with unmanned Spike Launcher Turret - there exists an existing presentation model with combined GROM launcher on top. The military has stated desire for such/similiar variant to replace aging BRDM-2 based Tank destroyers, however there haven't been much word on it since. Car transports: Tumak-2 (M1043A2 HMMWV) Tumak-3 (M1025A2 HMMWV) both come with Shielded/unshielded manned turret with UKM-2000, WKM-B or NSW, or mk. 19/GA-40 Tumak-4 (M1097A2 HMMWV), transports up to 11 people depending on the exact setup, unarmed Skorpion-3 - light multi purpouse vehicle, 7,62 MG on the roof turret. 1+4 crew Star 266M - Working horse of the Polish army. Unarmed truck. Up-armored driver cabin variant may also enter service "soon" (see Hibernyt-3 below) AA Assets: ZSU-23-4W1 Szyłka (ZSU-23-4V1) - no known changes since the Warsaw Pact times (possibly just some minor changes to make it compatible with modern AA Command and Control systems of the Polish Army). In the process of being upgraded to ZSU-23-4MP Biała standard. ZSU-23-4MP Biała - Polish upgrade, removal of the radar with mounting of completely passive opto-electronic detection and fire control systems, new ammo with slightly longer range (approx 3,5 km), and 4 GROM missiles for additional firepower (GROMs might be changed for PIORUN's in the future as they become available), all weather capability as well as Thermals and new AP rounds. Żubr-P - carrier of the POPRAD System using the GROM missiles (may use PIORUN as those become available). POPRAD is basically a passive detection suite, four GROM launchers and some spare missiles. 9K35M Strzała-10M - About unchanged since the Warsaw Pact days (as far as I can tell) Osa-AKM-P1 "Żądło" - Polish upgraded OSA-AKM, not sure if it fits CM scale however. Hibernyt-3 - uparmored Star 266M truck carrying ZUR-23-2KG system. ZUR-23-2KG upgrades since the good old ZU-23-2 includes: CP-1 night-and-day sight with laser rangefinder, electromechanic gun turn system and twin launcher for "Grom" missiles. The truck carries additional ammo and spare missiles. Off Map Support: AHS Krab - (aka THE MOST embarrassing project of the modern Polish Military industry) a division (at least) planned before 2017 AHS Kryl (possible to enter limited service before 2017) Both are 155mm NATO compatible Self Propelled Howitzers Armatohaubica wz. 1977 DANA-T - 152mm Self Propelled Howitzer 2S1T Goździk - Polish upgrade of venerable 2S1 Gvozdika SMK-120 RAK - 120 mm self propelled mortar system based upon ROSOMAK chassis - on order 80 vehicles to enter service in 2015 2B11 mortar - 120mm Mortar M-98 Rodon mortar - 98mm mortar LM-60 mortar - 60mm mortar Air Support Helo: Mi-24W (Polish designation for the Mi-24V)- Reportedly the Kokon ATGM are long past expiration date and they have only unguided ordinance now at it's disposal (!! REPORTEDLY !!). So either they won't have any or we assume we borrowed some Kokons from the Ukrainian stocks. Planes: F-16 Block 52+ I have made this informative info-graphic about what kind of stuff it can carry. Not sure which of those fit scale of CM:BS, but that's everything we have for them or have planned for them at the time of writing. Su-22M4 - as much as it would be even a bigger of a suicide than flying A-10 into a modern ADN, a number of Polish Su-22M4 can carry a pair of Kh-29T's - TV guided Anti Tank missiles. Beside that, it can carry to up to 8 dumb bombs - FAB-500 max or ZK-300 Polish made cluster bomb (anti personnel). MiG-29 (9.12A) - it can drop some dumb bombs, either FABs or ZK-300's UAV: Boeing ScanEagle Aeronautics Defense Orbiter WB Electronics FlyEye I imagine that would be all. If there are any questions or anything else that might fit the CM scale, please feel free to ask questions and I shall do answer them best to my abilities/knowledge. Apologies if I posted this in a wrong place. Thank you for reading ! EDIT: Formatting was gone for some reason. Should be all good now.