lordxenu

If it is any help Bryan Perrets book on the Panther states that the Improved British 75mm ammunition for the m3 could either reliably penetrate the Panthers front turret at 500m or got ricochets. Stephen Ashley Hart's book states that the turret used on late war anthers did not solve the problem of the ricochet and it was still very apparent. Also look at http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt34/german-tiger-pzkw-6.html Ignoring the effect of the 75mm and 6 pounder ammunition as the charges were not mentioned, it does state quite clearly 2 75mm projectiles ricochet'd and penetrated the roof of the tank. http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt_panther/index.html The Panther in theory should be more vulnerable. http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt09/vulnerable-parts-pzkw-6-tiger.html

The inert Filler still meant the weight of the round was reduced though, M72 had better penetration than m61 against RHA at all ranges and angle's. In every table I have seen anyway M72 at 500 yards at a 30 degree angle has a significant advantage over m61. Also the HE burster caused failure's in penetration against vehicles with spaced armour. You have a fair point about not knowing which round the game is using, but you cannot refute the information because its correct. M72 AP without the HE Burster according to Bovington Tank museum can penetrate 114mm of armour at 100 yards and 103mm at 500 yards, M72 ap with the HE burster penetrates 101mm at 100 yards. This would impy it is more in the region of 10% but Even a 4% improvement would mean that m72 at a narrow angle should not need more than one solid hit against parts of the Tiger to pentrate. With regards to this even with conflicting data there is nothing to refute, the MK 5 in one test got 76mm at 500 yards at a 30 degree angle of impact where as the M72 from a M3 with HE Burster gets 70mm. (again the 6 Pounder with APC penetrated 75mm and we know this definatly could knock the tiger out with one hit at short ranges with standard ammo.)

Thats a Fair point but the rest still stands.

The MK5 was made from the L50 6 pounder and The British counted the Barrell length differently than the US. The M3's Length was 38.5 Calibre's but I believe this would include the breech instead of Just the Barrell. The MK5 Ammunition indeed did remove the HE burster But Im not sure about any filler, The ammunition used by the America Army also weighed 14.9 lbs compared to 13.75 lbs for the British AP. (M72) It would seem that nothing of any significant weight replaced the HE burster, this certainly should explain why the ammo should perform differently. The round fired from the MK5 75mm would have had no HE burster and weighed less than the round fired from a M3. Some sources give 14lbs for the M72ap shot, but the British round is still lighter. With regards to the Tiger's mantlet not all tigers had the 120mm mantlet maybe you picked a different model? Also the US generaly used M61 and the British Army used M72.

That could be from a longer 6 pounder though, its listed as a MK5 in the book about the Cromwell By Osprey. WO 185 118 Tests a 6 pounder MK2 with AP. This is a clear indication of penetration and could suggest a range/Angle combination, and therefore of some obvious use to people who understand better. I would still suggest it would strongly indicate that richochet's would not be needed, they certainly were not for the 6 pounder atleast. Source: " Tank versus Tank", Kenneth Macksey, Guild Publishing, 1988 has a Table showing the 6 pounder L50 penetrating the Tiger frontally at 200 metres at 30 degree's so it would suggest a ballback level for penetration.

Well they Penetrate similar amounts of armour at 30 degree's vertical at 500 and 1,000 yards. The Round used in the table for the 6 pounder is APC fired at 862 M/S.

It Was the 6 Pounder MK 2 so L43

AP Steel Standard between the date's of 30th of July to August 13th.

To explain further in the document WO 185/118 the round passes through not badly distorted. This would indicate a single hit could get through and I am simply wondering if this is modelled in the game?

The Figures were from 30 degree's and like I said the 6 pounder penetrates the front plate of the tiger tank, in reality and not through a ricochet. Seeing as this happens despite penetrating 75mm at 457m which is 1mm less than the cromwell's mk5 75mm. Understand my point?

I have The Cromwell Cruiser Tank 1942-50 by Osprey Publishing, and in the book it gives the MK5 75mm 76mm at 457m at a 30 degree's vertical compared to 75mm for the 6 pounder MK5. According to WFO 185/118 the AP round for the 6 pounder could penetrate the Tiger Tank Frontaly and it was through the front plate, not a ricochet or a weak point. This would suggest it was possible, I certainly had a cromwell manage and destroy 2 Tiger's. If they were both ricochet's then he was very lucky.

Firstly Hello Forum! Is there any way that the similar window can be opened that shows gun data like on the original CM games? I have had some odd results playing quick battle's with the roqf 75mm, could it penetrate the tiger frontaly as I appear to have seen in thw game? Im sure I have seen it atleast. Just wondering as performence of the British 75mm and the removal of the HE burster in American ammunition has been a cause of controversy in the past, certainly on this forum.