Dr.Fusselpulli

Oh yeah, sounds nice indeed

When you are in Germany, there is barely any Army further away than the Australian Army.

I gave it another thought, and my have discovered the reason, why ability for fire ATGMs are linked to the question if Vehicles still have a waypoint or not and not to the variable, if the driver is driving or not. It might be because of the transport of Infantery. If you transport Infantery and you want to unload it at the last waypoint of a queue of waypoints you have created for vehicles, you would create one waypoint for the infantery as well. They would wait until the last waypoint, and THEN exit the vehicle at the last waypoint, not at a halt given by a pause order. This variable, to let the infantery boot out of the vehicle on the last waypoint then was also used as a check for ATGM vehicles, because it was already developed early for the infantery. So a simple solution as a check if a vehicle is moving or not, because infantery also can only leave a vehicle, if the vehicle is stopped. So the game most likely checks here for the same variable.

That would be fancy. But something similar is already possible. Just not in this perfect timing. You can be in a hull down position somewhere, pause for a couple of seconds, and then reverse to a hidden position. Then "fast" or "quick" drive" into the hull down position again, and give a pause to the vehicle to give it a chance to fire, and reverse again, and continue to do this in a circle. This works quite fine for tanks, but unfortunately not for ATMG vehicles. As the engine checks if a vehicle is driving by checking if the vehicle still has waypoints in queue. So it doesn´t fire with this tactics. But it works for tanks or MG vehicles.

Okay, then it makes more sense. Because I would expect that troops might all the time put on gear, if the enemy drops smoke and might be capable to attack with toxic gas. Which in the context of the cold war is all the time, as the Soviet Union had such weapons and using smoke to block LOS was part of the doctrine. Just better be safe than sorry and put on the maks. But if smoke can determinated from gas relatively easily, troops would not put on NBC gear, because of the immensive negative effects. I remember when I had to use NBC gear in training. Combat with it seemed to be almost impossible, but I also had a mask in very bad condition with scratched glasses, which made me only able to see a few meters until everything got blurry. There was a small spot in the glass that was clear, and it was a bit like fighting while looking through a key-hole. I lost orientation in the field more than once and it was possible for me to lose my squad from one moment to another. That everybody is wearing camoflage doesn´t make the task any easier. So staying in formation alone while walking without tripping over some nasty root or stone took about 90% of the attention already. But I guess, some soldiers would have bad material like these as well, because it would not be the right time to order new ones if war broke out. Which again, could have happened theoretically at any moment with only short warning and preperation time.

What I think is... how would troops differenciate between smoke for shielding LOS in comparison of chemical warfare aerosol? It is true, that the effects might be out of the scope for the player, but an option of "NBC Alarm". I can´t remember the time, but then the soldiers would put on their NBC gear in time and afterwards would have the said negative effects. I know, it is maybe a bit much to ask, but it buggs me a bit, that the Pixeltruppen don´t react to smoke dropping down on them by the enemy, how would they know it's not a toxic gas?

@CHEqTRO yes. That is exactly what I think is the case. But we as users don´t know how easy the behaviour is changable. Maybe it is not so difficult. What exist is a string that checks if the driver is driving or not. We can see that information in the lower left corner, if a selected vehicle is driving. If it is possible to check for the variable "Driver is driving" instead of "vehicle has waypoints in queue". If this is an realatively easy fix, this would be a great addition. If not, it is not game-breaking. It just prevents the user from doing shoot and scoot manouvers within one turn. They are still possible with a work around, if you time it in a way, that the shooting part is at the end of the turn, and then you give the order to retreat in the next turn. Just for my special purpose here, this is not an option.

Yes, and no aiming.

No, it is not TOW issue but an AI behaviour with ATGM in general. I checked for: M901 TOW, M150 TOW, M151A2 TOW, BRDM-2 AT-5, BRDM-2 AT-3 and 9P149 Shturm-S They all show the same behaviour. I think the restriction for ATGMs not be able to fire while moving is bound to the question if still waypoints are available for the vehicle, not if the vehicle is actually moving. My suggestion would be a check if the driver is driving instead, but I don´t know about the details of the engine, if such a thing could be changed easily. The vehicle will fire, even if there is a pause, if no further waypoint is in cue. The crew can spot, but even aming is not happening anymore.

Yes, that is true. I have to live with what we have. As I said, I will change the perspective of who you will play to deal with this issue. I know I am doing something the game isn´t suppose to have, AI controlled allied forces. I think this is a great way to add immersion, to show that the battle in which you fight is not a single isolated event, but part of a bigger picture. And that the player is not the commander in charge to make every decision, but only one cog in the gear of the war. However this shoot and scoot maneuver is something that should be possible even for normal players. I used this tactics regulary with vehicles, to move forward, give a target arc or a fire order and a few seconds pause for the vehicle to fire, and then reverse within the same turn.

Are you sure? I just tested it on an open field, using a M151A2 TOW and an enemy Abrams as a target. I FAST FORWARD forwards, 1:30 minute PAUSE. Then REVERSE. The TOW vehicle only fired after it reached the reversed position. So yes, this tactic is no longer possible, but I doubt you remeber it correctly, because I assume it was never possible. Why would Battlefront change the vehicle behaviour to something worse?

No, the vehicle will never fire on a pause right now. Not 20 seconds, and not a string of 10 waypoints with 90 seconds pauses. Which would be 15 minutes, or half the scenario on the standard setting of a 30 minutes scenario. It is not a question of time, it is a question if waypoints still exist.

Yes, IF it is possible rather easily to restrict the ability of ATGM vehicles to use their weapon not on the trigger "Waypoint exist" but Driver is "Driving" that would be great. Because this information exist in the game, you can see what individual soldiers are doing right now.

@chuckdykeYes, if you play the game in the usual way, how it is supposed to be, this TacAI behaviour is good, it even helps me in my case. I just switch the perspective to the Soviets, using at Tank Battalion Task force. They have 3 Tank companies and 1 motor rifle battalion on BMP. If I let the player control this one BMP company, I get rid of both problems, the limitations of the AI with mouting and dismounting vehicles AND the ATGM with moving vehicles. Then I just have to move the Tanks in my Battleplan, which is a rather simple task of fire and movement without anything special. The unoffical slogan of the German Tank forces quite fits here: "Breit fahren, schmal denken" (Drive broad, think narrow)

I know, most ATGMs are not designed to work on the move. I don´t want to use the weapon on the move, but while coming to a halt on a "pause". If a vehicle stops for 90 seconds because of a pause, this would be probably enough time to fire both TOWs into the target and even reload them.

That means I have to change the perspective of the battle for single player to the mechanized infantery company of the attacking Soviets. The scenario AI can probably work together reasonable well with the Tactical-AI of the Unit. If I have enemy M901 TOW in defensive position, they will shoot their two TOWs, pop smoke and reverse. I can then write the AI-Plan in a way, in which they will be ordered, to move to the same positing every few minutes over and over again, which will lead to the wanted behaviour of the vehicle to fire and retreat for reloading, and then get into the firing position again. I can also give some rather clumsy instruction to the NATO player, to take a look at the M901 at every turn and tell him to move them back into the firing position, if the Tactical-AI drove them back.

That is true. Still, it is rather an odd behaviour, that fireing an ATGM is bound to the question if a waypoint is existing and not to the movement speed or the "Driving" task of the driver. If a change of the engine is possible to change the condition to "exist waypoint" to "Is driver driving" that would be way more reasonable. I just made a test, using the M901 TOW, M150 TOW, M151A2 TOW, BRDM-2 AT-5, BRDM-2 AT-3 and 9P149 Shturm-S on the red side, with 6 Abrams as targets on the blue side, having very small target arcs. If you Plot a few waypoints for the ATGM vehicles, with pauses in between for them to use as stops to fire, even up to 90 seconds, they will do nothing. If you then add a "hunt" command somewhere in between the waypoints, the ATGM vehicle will wait for the "Pause" time to run out, and then fire the ATGM as soon as the Hunt command deletes the waypoints. In this case, "Pause" stops to give vehicles an opportunity to fire doesn´t work for ATMGs, the "Pause" comment here really means "Do nothing"

That doesn´t help me in this case, if I want to preplot the battle.

No, I mean in general it is fine. Just I try to plot the entire battle in the setup phase already, and thinking about options to keep it dynamic and reasonable. The not firing ATGMs however are an issue for every user, who wants to micromanage an elaborate attack in the turn based mode. Because if you can only plot waypoints up to the point when the vehicle is suppose to open fire is a bit limited.

Hi there, I try to make a scenario in which you play as one company within a Battalion sized battle. The Idea is, that you will not load the game the usual way, but you will load a savegame, in which the waypoints of all other units within the Battalion are already plotted, so you don´t play them. I noticed a strange behaviour with an M901 TOW vehicle. I have two of them in a hull down defense position behind a hedgerow, while a soviet tank battalion is advancing. Without waypoints, they shoot their two TOW missiles, then pop smoke and reverse. I want to avoid that behaviour, so I plotted advanced waypoints for them. First I let them "reverse" to a hidden position behind the slope until the soviet tanks come into sight, then I "quick" forward into the hull down position. If I only do it like that, the M901 then will shot its two TOW missiles, pop smoke and reverse. IF I give this hull down position some "Pause" time (I tried for 15,20,30,45,60 Seconds), with an reverse waypoint afterwards, the M901 will not fire or even try to aim. It will spot enemy tanks, but not engage them. I gave it a "Target Armor Arch", but this doesn´t change its behaviour. When the "Pause" is over, the M901 will "reverse" into it's hidden position, and then "Quick" forward again into the hull down position. Only if no following Waypoint is lined up, it will shoot. Even if the "Pause" timer is still running. I also tried to "Stack" waypoints together to add "Pause" times. But I noticed, the pause is ignored then. Example: "Quick" waypoint into the Hull down position with Armor Arc and 30 Seconds "Pause", then sliding another "Quick" waypoint onto the same spot with a 5 Seconds "pause" to add them up to a 35 Seconds Pause does not work. If the vehicle is at the spot of the waypoint already, the waypoint will be "Checked" regardless of the "Pause". It takes about 4 Seconds to reach the next waypoint. so the 30 Seconds Waypoint will count down to about 26 Seconds, and then jump to the next one, counting down the 5 seconds regulary. I guess the reason for the M901 TOW not fireing from a paused waypoint might be a programmed workaround for the AI to not shoot the TOW while the vehicle is moving, but it prevents elaborate waypoint plotting, in which vehicles would shoot, then reverse to a save position, and continue this in a circle. The M901 TOW does not pop smoke and reverse from the position, even if it comes under fire. I assume, the AI recognizes it is quite safe in its position, and still does have two TOW missiles to shoot, so it stays in combat, while it reverses as soon as it is empty, because in this case, it only is an unneccary target. I will check if all ATGM vehicles, including Soviet ones behave in the same way. If yes, it is unfortunately not possible to continue with my idea as planned. Another challenge is, that it is not possible, to move vehicles after infantery has disembarked. Because Infantery will disembark at the last waypoint. This is fine for a Battletaxi vehicle like the M113, which will move into a save position behind the enemy lines, unload the infantry which will get into combat position, while the M113 just waits in the save position. Another option might be (not tested yet) to use more "Hunt" orders for the M113. So the vehicle will just drive until it spots an enemy, then it will stop and delete all following waypoint, and the infantry will boot out and follow their preplotted waypoints, while the M113 will support them from its position. But thats another story... first... how do I get the ATGMs to fire at tanks on a paused waypoint if there are still further waypoints available?

Amazing Pete, I will use these for my scenario. I especially love the trailer, very well done. @MikeyD I am fine now, if we can have awesome mods like these!

What? were is this coming from? Fantastic!

Hurray! We have two of those in the game! Now I am curious if they were made last minute, to please this thread, or if they were in the game already. Also checked if the door does have a reasonable size, because it lookes quite large, but I checked it out by placing a soldier next to it, and the size is quite right. Unfortunately, the phone booth and letter box didn´t made it into the game, as well as vehicles like the wagon or the golf. But there was this tutorial, to add objects. The two airconditioners on the other hand are quite useless. Airconditioning is quite unusual in Germany, and at that time in the late 70s and early 80s not used at all. Not even by shops or public buildings. And if it is used, it would be better hidden.

@StieliAlpha ouch, that is bad luck

And by chance I have to work longer today