BlackMoria

Ah....is that a cracking sound I hear?  It would be fantastic for a break in the russian defences to get things really rolling.

Lots of possibilities to consider.
A.  the plane crash was an accident.  Least likely possibility in my opinion.
B.  It is Prig doing a ninja vanish as he got word that being near a window as in his future, so it was time to bail and live a quiet life in Africa.  Not likely but possible.  Wouldn't put it past the slippery bastard.
C.  Payback by the Generals affected by the purge.  Possible.  Proof will be seeing what machinations occur in the internal politics of Russian
D.  It was the Ukrainians.   Highly possible, IMO.
E.  Putin ordered the hit. A bomb or Russian AD bought the plane down.  It will be reported as an accident.
I am leaning between D & E, with E topping the list. Putin is hearing people mutter about him being weak and the failed moon landing, which could of buoyed up his standing, sunk that chance.  He senses the knives bring drawn and was forced to act.

Lots of possibilities to consider.
A.  the plane crash was an accident.  Least likely possibility in my opinion.
B.  It is Prig doing a ninja vanish as he got word that being near a window as in his future, so it was time to bail and live a quiet life in Africa.  Not likely but possible.  Wouldn't put it past the slippery bastard.
C.  Payback by the Generals affected by the purge.  Possible.  Proof will be seeing what machinations occur in the internal politics of Russian
D.  It was the Ukrainians.   Highly possible, IMO.
E.  Putin ordered the hit. A bomb or Russian AD bought the plane down.  It will be reported as an accident.
I am leaning between D & E, with E topping the list. Putin is hearing people mutter about him being weak and the failed moon landing, which could of buoyed up his standing, sunk that chance.  He senses the knives bring drawn and was forced to act.

Lots of possibilities to consider.
A.  the plane crash was an accident.  Least likely possibility in my opinion.
B.  It is Prig doing a ninja vanish as he got word that being near a window as in his future, so it was time to bail and live a quiet life in Africa.  Not likely but possible.  Wouldn't put it past the slippery bastard.
C.  Payback by the Generals affected by the purge.  Possible.  Proof will be seeing what machinations occur in the internal politics of Russian
D.  It was the Ukrainians.   Highly possible, IMO.
E.  Putin ordered the hit. A bomb or Russian AD bought the plane down.  It will be reported as an accident.
I am leaning between D & E, with E topping the list. Putin is hearing people mutter about him being weak and the failed moon landing, which could of buoyed up his standing, sunk that chance.  He senses the knives bring drawn and was forced to act.

Lots of possibilities to consider.
A.  the plane crash was an accident.  Least likely possibility in my opinion.
B.  It is Prig doing a ninja vanish as he got word that being near a window as in his future, so it was time to bail and live a quiet life in Africa.  Not likely but possible.  Wouldn't put it past the slippery bastard.
C.  Payback by the Generals affected by the purge.  Possible.  Proof will be seeing what machinations occur in the internal politics of Russian
D.  It was the Ukrainians.   Highly possible, IMO.
E.  Putin ordered the hit. A bomb or Russian AD bought the plane down.  It will be reported as an accident.
I am leaning between D & E, with E topping the list. Putin is hearing people mutter about him being weak and the failed moon landing, which could of buoyed up his standing, sunk that chance.  He senses the knives bring drawn and was forced to act.

Lots of possibilities to consider.
A.  the plane crash was an accident.  Least likely possibility in my opinion.
B.  It is Prig doing a ninja vanish as he got word that being near a window as in his future, so it was time to bail and live a quiet life in Africa.  Not likely but possible.  Wouldn't put it past the slippery bastard.
C.  Payback by the Generals affected by the purge.  Possible.  Proof will be seeing what machinations occur in the internal politics of Russian
D.  It was the Ukrainians.   Highly possible, IMO.
E.  Putin ordered the hit. A bomb or Russian AD bought the plane down.  It will be reported as an accident.
I am leaning between D & E, with E topping the list. Putin is hearing people mutter about him being weak and the failed moon landing, which could of buoyed up his standing, sunk that chance.  He senses the knives bring drawn and was forced to act.

Lots of possibilities to consider.
A.  the plane crash was an accident.  Least likely possibility in my opinion.
B.  It is Prig doing a ninja vanish as he got word that being near a window as in his future, so it was time to bail and live a quiet life in Africa.  Not likely but possible.  Wouldn't put it past the slippery bastard.
C.  Payback by the Generals affected by the purge.  Possible.  Proof will be seeing what machinations occur in the internal politics of Russian
D.  It was the Ukrainians.   Highly possible, IMO.
E.  Putin ordered the hit. A bomb or Russian AD bought the plane down.  It will be reported as an accident.
I am leaning between D & E, with E topping the list. Putin is hearing people mutter about him being weak and the failed moon landing, which could of buoyed up his standing, sunk that chance.  He senses the knives bring drawn and was forced to act.

The KA-52 compilation video could be just as it describes.... but we know RU loves exaggerating and misinformation.   I give equal weight to those being recycled training range videos.  And possible attacks on Ukr decoys.  We know those are a thing and it would not be surprising to me that Ukraine is using decoys or mockups in some way against the helicopters.

At this point, I don't think anyone has clear idea of what the hell is going on.   Just keep the popcorn machine popping and stand by....

At this point, I don't think anyone has clear idea of what the hell is going on.   Just keep the popcorn machine popping and stand by....

Color me confused.  Various factions of liars hammered out a deal to resolve this situation and everyone is taking whatever agreement as gospel.  Color me sceptical now.   How does anyone trust anyone to see this deal through?

Color me confused.  Various factions of liars hammered out a deal to resolve this situation and everyone is taking whatever agreement as gospel.  Color me sceptical now.   How does anyone trust anyone to see this deal through?

Color me confused.  Various factions of liars hammered out a deal to resolve this situation and everyone is taking whatever agreement as gospel.  Color me sceptical now.   How does anyone trust anyone to see this deal through?

Color me confused.  Various factions of liars hammered out a deal to resolve this situation and everyone is taking whatever agreement as gospel.  Color me sceptical now.   How does anyone trust anyone to see this deal through?

Btw. if somebody likes to check various insignia we often see in videos, here is a website that have them covered. May also be useful for potential futures scenarios.:
https://owlmaps.github.io/units/#/ua

Don't read too much into the poll.    Studies show that many participants in polls don't understand the questions at times or the subject matter of the poll for that matter. They answer anyway and usually to the negative, even if they have no idea what is being asked, rather than admitting they don't know.  That is why so much effort goes into making poll questions understandable and why unscrupulous pollsters can stack the deck with how questions are worded.   
If you asked someone for a opinion on NATO and they never heard of it, people are going to say NATO bad rather than say they have no idea what NATO is.  Really good pollsters try to vette their respondents, such as asking early in the poll interview if the respondent has some familiarity with the poll subject.  No point including that person in the poll pool if they are clueless to the poll subject. 
You don't know the fidelity and methodology of the poll.  Maybe the results are accurate.  Maybe the fidelity is outright rubbish.

I don't get the pearl clutching here.   Nobody is expecting a 'clean' war because it is nearly impossible to do.  Civilian casualties happen in war, no way to avoid it.  Coalition forces in Iraq and Afghanistan killed thousands of civilians over the long course of those conflicts and that was with Coalition forces trying to avoid civilian casualties.  But mistakes are made, coordinates are wrong, incorrect identification of the target, intel is bad, etc. etc.  In short, s**t happens.  Nobody likes it but happens.    
The main difference between Russia and Ukraine is that Russia isn't even trying to avoid civilian casualties.  Ukraine is at least trying to avoid that.    But the moment you start lobbing missile or drones into someone else's country, there is always the chance that a civilian target get hit by accident.   I think most people, even the minimally informed public, understand this.  We have seen this rodeo in every conflict of the late 20th century.   People know that wars are not clean affairs in which only the enemy combatants get kill or wounded. 

I don't get the pearl clutching here.   Nobody is expecting a 'clean' war because it is nearly impossible to do.  Civilian casualties happen in war, no way to avoid it.  Coalition forces in Iraq and Afghanistan killed thousands of civilians over the long course of those conflicts and that was with Coalition forces trying to avoid civilian casualties.  But mistakes are made, coordinates are wrong, incorrect identification of the target, intel is bad, etc. etc.  In short, s**t happens.  Nobody likes it but happens.    
The main difference between Russia and Ukraine is that Russia isn't even trying to avoid civilian casualties.  Ukraine is at least trying to avoid that.    But the moment you start lobbing missile or drones into someone else's country, there is always the chance that a civilian target get hit by accident.   I think most people, even the minimally informed public, understand this.  We have seen this rodeo in every conflict of the late 20th century.   People know that wars are not clean affairs in which only the enemy combatants get kill or wounded. 

Ah, yes.   The old "Law of Unintended Consequences."  Always an arse biter.

Yeah.  Frickin' vegans.   I can't eat a hamburger in public anymore without some snide or snarky comment about me eating an animal.     Ok... a bit of a joke by me.   Maybe a bit of hyperbole on my part as well,  But that is one uptight group that takes themselves far too seriously and they are as obnoxious as hell.   😆

Blood is in the water.  The great beast is weakening.   The west has the sense of this and the predators are closing in.  France is saying it will provide their own version of Storm Shadow to Ukraine.  The UK and the Dutch and Belgium are talking F-16 training.   And that is a foreshadow that F-16 or a similar airframe are on the table.   More and more armaments of all kinds are being promised now or short term.
The russian bear is looking out into the night and see nothing but the hungry eyes of predators awaiting their moment.  Those eyes are Ukrainian eyes and Western eyes.  I wonder if anyone in the Kremlin is aware they are staring into the abyss already and russian dreams are dead, dead, dead...