Justanotherwargamer

I suppose the comment was too cryptic hehe. No SC is grand strategy and a computer wargame, and Squad Leader is a board game and squad tactical. Obviously they have nothing in common beyond both are set in WW2 hehe. My remark was directed at how both games were very successful, and it was THEIR design elements that made them the successes they are. Now it is clear that ASL is a major leap forward in many ways, but, in many ways they also likely took some directions that might not have been entirely wise as well. It's massively expensive, it is massively complex and the manual is anything but easy to manage hehe. SC2 has a great editor, major plus, but, SC2 doesn't have hexes, it has tiles. And frankly it would have been nicer on the eyes let alone game play if it had stuck with hexes. I made the comparison, because in both cases, both games evolutions seem bent on painting the originators as lacking and as inadequate. Well, if they had been genuinely lacking, and genuinely inadequate, they'd have never made it to "success" status either. Anyway, it is clear this game has been shelved as far as forum interest is concerned I started this thread a LONG way back hehe. And no one has posted a new thread since. Back in the beginning, a thread's time on page 1 could be measured in minutes hehe. Oh well, everything has it's day. I haven't played a game of Advanced Third Reich in a number of years either. I got the email by the way guys, I am considering playing, but, I would likely prefer to play "live" as opposed to PBEM. I have a bad habit of getting distracted, and wandering off in PBEM mode.

I suppose the comment was too cryptic hehe. No SC is grand strategy and a computer wargame, and Squad Leader is a board game and squad tactical. Obviously they have nothing in common beyond both are set in WW2 hehe. My remark was directed at how both games were very successful, and it was THEIR design elements that made them the successes they are. Now it is clear that ASL is a major leap forward in many ways, but, in many ways they also likely took some directions that might not have been entirely wise as well. It's massively expensive, it is massively complex and the manual is anything but easy to manage hehe. SC2 has a great editor, major plus, but, SC2 doesn't have hexes, it has tiles. And frankly it would have been nicer on the eyes let alone game play if it had stuck with hexes. I made the comparison, because in both cases, both games evolutions seem bent on painting the originators as lacking and as inadequate. Well, if they had been genuinely lacking, and genuinely inadequate, they'd have never made it to "success" status either. Anyway, it is clear this game has been shelved as far as forum interest is concerned I started this thread a LONG way back hehe. And no one has posted a new thread since. Back in the beginning, a thread's time on page 1 could be measured in minutes hehe. Oh well, everything has it's day. I haven't played a game of Advanced Third Reich in a number of years either. I got the email by the way guys, I am considering playing, but, I would likely prefer to play "live" as opposed to PBEM. I have a bad habit of getting distracted, and wandering off in PBEM mode.

I don't yet have SC2 (it's about being an adult, and paying bills first, yeah I know, sucks to be mature ). I am not for or against SC2 yet, because I've only seen the demo. I'm still moody about the lack of hexes, but again, I have not played SC2 yet really (demo is not enough to make a big judgement) so I'm not sure if I can get past no hexes or not. Have not stopped playing SC1 though, because why would I want to? The game is like Squad Leader, say what you want in support of ASL, but it became famous because Squad Leader made it that way. Same with SC, the game succeeded because original SC was great. I play mainly hotseat. Sorry guys, heard to much flak about security so I won't respond to requests to play. But wanted to make it clear, the ole original game has not lost its shine.

I don't yet have SC2 (it's about being an adult, and paying bills first, yeah I know, sucks to be mature ). I am not for or against SC2 yet, because I've only seen the demo. I'm still moody about the lack of hexes, but again, I have not played SC2 yet really (demo is not enough to make a big judgement) so I'm not sure if I can get past no hexes or not. Have not stopped playing SC1 though, because why would I want to? The game is like Squad Leader, say what you want in support of ASL, but it became famous because Squad Leader made it that way. Same with SC, the game succeeded because original SC was great. I play mainly hotseat. Sorry guys, heard to much flak about security so I won't respond to requests to play. But wanted to make it clear, the ole original game has not lost its shine.

Thanks Martin. This pre order offer generosity BF is offering for the SC2 release, is I think a very nice deal, and commendable. I hope BF will consider this for any other future release. It had been mentioned over at Matrix Games, alas, I think the original point was lost. It appears they have missed the spirit of your offer here potentially. I can only speculate. It's not like a publisher will be releasing that many titles, that it will be a frequent occurance. It's nice that the guys that put up their cash in advance, were given some slack. Matrix Games appears to figure they already do a digital download + physical shipment for an extra 10 bucks is what it's all about. I suppose they are not aware for this limited time, the physical shipment isn't an "additional" cost, like it might routinely be. It would really be nice if publishers of wargames, maybe took your offer as an example to heart. It would be nice to see MORE wargames offered to wargamers who speak up early about their purchase with their wallets, get a time limited price reduction. I think everyone knows it's no picnic making wargames, but there has to be some benefit for early support.

I understand, that THIS SECOND (which will soon not be the case of course) the game is still in pre-order status, and a Digital Download comes with a promise of a physical delivery. But as physical means shipping and handling on top of the price (which is 45 correct?), the question for me curtrently, is what will the eventual Digital Download price calculation be. I am assuming it would be 45 bucks plus tax and nothing else. As it stands, I just don't have the cash today, so regardless of how sweet the current pre order offer may or may not be, it's not material (to me that is). I'm planning to go Digital Download when I CAN get it, and the plan is to do Digital Download, and not fret that I might not have an official silk screened cd and a box with a manual. I am sure your manual will be a nice production, but in cutting my cost, something has to go, and it if means I have to print out portions of a pdf file some other time, I'll live with it. So, even though the site hasn't got the pricing set up, is it a detail that can be just simply stated for my benefit here. What will a DD only purchase tax included copy sans physical purchase cost a Canadian buyer? (use US funds, I'd rather avoid transitory currency shifts).

This is something which I can't claim to have specific all encompassing knowledge of. I live in central Ontario Canada, and in my experience, people with dial up are rather rare. Maybe it's similar to how Canadians and Finns make up the world's biggest users of Cell phones. But when I hear complaints of access to broadband, it always makes me scratch my head. But then, I can't claim to know much about communications services in Europe, or Australia or New Zealand. I have a friend in New Zealand, and I am told they only have the one company Telecom, a monopoly, making service typically expensive. I am told ordinary phone usage in Europe can be atrociously expensive, so large lumps of bandwidth usage is not enjoyable. Meanwhile, I have broadband, and I could be downloading the game non stop 24/7 with no ill effects and no weird expenses at speeds of up to 300k without thinking anything of it. That's just the norm, and I even live in a small town. Not a major city. I also ponder on occasion, how many of you on dial up, know another person with broadband (the idea being they are local). It's just a file download eh, surely you must know at least one broadband equipped local.

Hubert likely won't need to address "theme" options, as that was the point of the editor I think. No, I want the HC effect applied to something again unique, new fresh, entirely underused. I'm thinking, of a game not unlike Up Front (the one that uses cards). I know the software exists to run competitive card using games. It's been done for the Magic the Gathering game already. I don't want to suggest a direct clone of Up Front though, he'd only be butting heads with the money powerful pinheads of Hasbro over licensing. No, he could basically just give us HC's version of a card game on a computer, which could be played in live real time against another online player. I want something fresh HC. 3d and real time, every friggin yahoo out there has pounded that puppy long enough.

I have pondered the "editor" thing with some games. And my opinion on it has not always run as a constant. But, if you look at games out there, ones with editors, and compare them with games, games that are buy it and play it and if you want more, you have to pay more again, I think, it comes down in favour of more support for a seriously effective editor. Or at least mod friendly. The list of iconic games out there, the ones that came about 5-10 years ago, and are STILL dominant titles with massive fan bases, is not a massively long list, but it is still a really good example of what you get with a serious editor in a good game. Close Combat Steel Panthers Combat Mission TOAW Civilization Heroes of Might and Magic Those titles are all very powerful names in the gaming world. They have all basically proven nearly timeless. Up against that, is HPS for instance, and their ever increasing line of titles, but you never get anything more than what you bought. And while the average HPS title is a good purchase, you don't find fan sites out there either, obsessing over the games. If in 5 years, HC is unable to continue sales of SC2, it likely won't be because of the editor. Chances are though, he won't be suffering in the industry as a mostly unknown designer. He's made a solid name for himself, and that can only go towards making each and every following project that much more likely to be successful. There's more than a few game designers, that sell mostly off the power of their name, and not the actual power of the game's reviews. I bought Civ IV more on the basis of previous reputation than anything else. Looking forward to hearing about your next project when you are rested Hubert.

So, you've made SC and now SC2. What next? I assume you plan to do something next Any ideas where the HC plans to apply his talents to?

Cheat codes? Trainers? Kill the fool!! Cheat codes is for kiddies that can't handle failure. Trainers is for kiddies with too little attention span to actually read a manual when it's required. You do realise, no one has the game yet. I'd like to see how anyone could have cheat codes for a game they don't even have yet.

GGWaW has a demo, best is to visit Matrix Games, and follow through their Games link, to the game's own section, where you will find links. Worth Playing and Gamershell both host it.

Nice...how old are you? </font>

I'm with Yogi Somne will be playing this demo ad naseum, perhaps in a desperate bid to just get something SC2ish to play. Me, I've played it a handful of times, ok I've seen the game's demo, time to move on. I am not going to make blanket statements about the game just yet, because all I have played is the demo, I haven't even seen the game mostly. The game is naturally, based off the same code, but, I haven't been able to save, or buy units, or use the editor (of course not, it's not possible in the demo). I can still recall the first SC demo. The game ended in a finite time span. Naturally, a person would be playing, and then nooooooooo! I just needed one more turn Demos that allow you to just play the demo, and not require the game, to be amused, have essentially screwed up. If you want to play, ya gotta pay.

I've been told a long laundry list of "issues" that exist with WitP. And for a game that is 100 bucks to a canuck, that's a bit steep to get into a game that is that complex, that time consuming, only to find, 3 months worth of gaming in, that some wonky glitch has just folded spindled and mutilated all your effort. That folks, is why SC and SC2 are such nice games. You can sit down, run through a game in an afternoon, and sit back, and then ponder, I think such and such needs to be tweaked some. There ain't no "running through a game of WitP in a single afternoon". I would have looooooved to have been in the playtest group, but then again, man that game would have required "time in" the likes of which would almost feel like actual work. Games that complex, are usually lucky to come out adequately playtested at all, it's just such a daunting task. I know pzgndr has done work also for AGW, and man, I bet you're tired at this point As much as we will be bugging the man, I hope HC has plans to bugger off for at least a while now that he has the game to the point he has.

I wish I was young again too Been married 20 years now, so I guess that removes me from the "young category" hehe. About the only "young" aspect left these days, is my youthful insistence I have to buy every wargame the walks past my view I really, I mean seriously, don't "need" SC2, but I can't seem to get the child in my head to shut up hehe.

Hmm you saying I am wrong, does not make you right though

I will let it slide, because I guess my term was not well chosen. Burn out in this instance, does not imply I don't wish to play the game. Actually, what I was getting at, is I have played the game plenty now, I don't want "just the demo" any more. Alas, I really need April 28th really bad (that's the soonest I have a chance at all of liberating funds for my game). Some no doubt will continue to whack around the demo for some time, but, all a demo is meant to do, is tell you if you want the game or not. I don't need to play it 100 times on the first day to come to a decision.

People that insist, they will ONLY play a game, if they have an AI to kick around, YOU are the reason, for a lot of the problems in the wargaming industry. This will seem harsh, but, really, there isn't any other way to say it. If you REFUSE to find an opponent for Hotseat mode, and you REFUSE to find an opponent for online option play style, then, you likely should STOP buying computer wargames, because ALL of them are going to SUCK more or less universally. In case no one has noticed, AI technology is dim at best. That is the horrible honest truth. Game makers will usually defend their product, but that makes sense, why say negative things about one's product. The AI in SC 1 or 2 will ALWAYS seem dumb, and really, there is no magical fix, no patch that Hubert can pull out of thin air to change that. If Hubert actually COULD make a dynamic thinking AI, the man would be instantly more wealthy than Bill Gates. Because, we could actually USE machines that think. Toaster, yes master, make me two baggels, lightly browned to setting preference 3, and time this so they arrive in 5 minutes after my shower. Yes master, but I should mention, this brand of baggel requires 30 seconds more at setting 3 to achieve your desired browning. Thank you toaster, allow for this then please. Get it, there are NO AIs worth talking about right now. Ever run through I have played so far, of the D-Day demo, has gone the same way so far. It's because, the AI isn't really in a position to think. It's just following pre programmed steps. For those of you, socially challenged, unable to find a human, for what EVER reason, be it willing or unfortunate, stop waiting for the quick fix. Play the damn game hotseat, and just be both sides. It's not a revolutionary concept. Most of us board gaming era wargamers, did this all the time. God mode omnipotent knowledge of the board, did NOT make Advanced Third Reich unenjoyable for me, EVER. True, I usually used only MY best ideas. I sometimes finally found a human opponent that broadsided me with new thinking. But, if you won't buy SC2, if the AI is not truely brilliant, then fine, walk away. I plan on playing the AI when I just don't care if the game has all the challenge of a game frogger. If I want a REAL challenge though, I will not ask the AI to play at all. Games with no hotseat mode, now THAT is bad game design choice. Games with no internet competition mode, even worse game design choice. Games with a stupid AI, not at all out of the ordinary. The ONLY AIs out there, are likely just games suitably complex, that you can't master the weaknesses in the AI as easily. If I have offended, it was not deliberate, nor intentional. But whining on and on about the AI, it's as pointless as the whining of us grognards and the need for a hex. Actually, the hex is at least easier to employ, and able to perform up to the full expectations placed on it.

Played a bunch of the D-Day scenario now, have not played the other to be honest. But, I have reached the point, maybe sooner than others, where I have realised, ok, I've seen the game to my satisfaction, now playing it more, is like continuing to window shop, when you've already decided to buy something. Alas, the wallet is empty today, or I would likely be one of the pre ordered "where's" my game" lamenters Please sir, spare a little change for a down on his luck wargamer It's going to be a long month for me I think. I don't expect to be seeing spare cash till May

GGWaW, graphics look like my son drew them. Says enough there I would assume. Gary's name, if you ask me, was just a shameless way to sell the product. Name dropping in the worst way. Third Reich PC, only downside, it's not Advanced Third Reich. Likely will be outdone by Computer World In Flames. One sad lesson, some times just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it "should" be done. Which is why I would rather lump HoI (1 or 2) with MOO3.

AIs are a market requirement. It's nice when the AI plays better than a dim witted little girl of course. But, as the game can be played solo hotseat, no major tragedy. Human vs Human is almost universally superior. But, I HAVE played people dumber than little girls before (sadly). So playing vs Human is not 100% garanteed.

I also found the Allied HQs were a bit vulnerable. First run through (beginner), they landed the HQs in what I thought were high risk locations (adjacent to enemy troops etc). I knocked one off with little effort. Granted, the invasion IS supposed to be dangerous.

It doesn't matter to me. Damn, and I have been rubbing the son's face in how he ain't getting Kingdom Hearts 2, because he ain't got no money saved. And I am essentially no better off than he is I can hardly go buy my toy after what I have been saying. I'm glad he's got a paper route, at least he can fend for himself hehe.

Add Novice to the Oops category In both cases, Green and Novice difficulty level, the ground element and naval element just pack it in and go home. The special forces guys attack (pointless of course) and the air force does its thing (also pointless), but there ain't no invasion. Now if you want to see stomping, try Germans on Expert hehe. Man they get trashed fast. This game is looking better every time I reload the turn and watch a run through. Question (likely a dumb one) did the demo get beta tested? or just the full game? Just curious about the invasion gaffe, not that I expect anyone to actually play on pussy I mean Green difficulty setting hehe.