Krautman

With this last source of resistance gone, the battle is won - the Russians surrender. Hauptmann Werner orders his men to report. This assault might gain him the german cross in gold, as he hopes. The famous last word goes to Uffz Großpietsch, a Pz II tank commander: Well, he sais it all. I didn't expect the battle to be that easy- the AI had a bonus after all. If i do an AAR again, i'll try a scenario which might prove a better challenge. I'm an early war fanboy, any suggestions (~1000-1500 pts.) are welcome. The outcome: EDIT: Some pictures got lost and i had to re-upload them at ImageShack. Strange. [ May 03, 2005, 02:07 AM: Message edited by: Krautman ]

Obeying Lt. Lonn's order, OG Harzer grabs his grenade bundle, leaves the squad with some other riflemen and runs towards the tanks. Normally, he stays with his squad - he knows squad splitting is gamey - but this is a special situation. As he comes closer to the tank, he realizes this one is different from any BT-7 or T-26 he has seen before: Shocked by the bang of the tank gun, which is very different from the BT-7's, he drops his grenade bundle! Meanwhile, Big Bertha spells doom: Her shells make the earth tremble. The situation so far: The enemy infantry is fleeing the field. The only resistance left is the T-34; the tankette remains inactive and reverses in panic. Falke's PSWs spot it and open fire. Meanwhile, OG Harzer found his grenade bundle. He throws it with striking accuracy. The grenade bundle bounces off the outer hull, lands next to the tracks and explodes. The left track is ripped off. The tank crew realize they are immobilized and surrounded. Soon, they bail out.

But soon, the defenders facing Sperber 1 break, almost deaf by the incoming shells and overwhelmed by the German infantry. The situation at the southern approach route is different: The terrain offers better cover, and the advancing germans of Sperber 2 are ambushed. Uffz Kahl's group loses three riflemen in intense close quarters fighting. That's the situation shortly after the initial assault: Lieutenant Lonn of Sperber 2 has spotted a tank, which he identifies as a BT-7. Furthermore, a gun has opened fire on the leading PSW of Falke, but is soon silenced by Big Bertha. The constant shelling is too much for them: Russian soldiers fleeing the area of Sperber 1's assault. Lt. Lonn of Sperber 2 orders his men to grab their grenade bundles and attack the BT-7, which is distracted- it's facing the opposite direction, firing on Sperber 1 infantrymen. Lt. Lonn also spots a tankette, which is as well assaulted. Dammit. ImageShack doesn't provide the images in their original size, and the text can hardly be read. Sorry for that. Meanwhile, Sperber 1 have completely taken their objective.

Yes, that is correct. (German birds of prey, Sperber=sparrowhawk etc) Only seconds after the first man stepped on a landmine, a similar event occurs among the soldiers of Sperber 1: As Lt Nerbul's platoon HQ makes its way through the undergrowth, a rifleman triggers a booby trap. The wounded are being taken care of and the minefields are marked. This is the situation as of turn 16: A minute later, Big Bertha has been moved into her final position. The men are preparing for fire. This is my plan for the actual assault: Sperber groups are to assault the victory flags. From previous engagements, they already know that the Russians are staunch close-quarters fighters and camouflage specialists. Thus, the attacked area will be shelled in advance, then the infantry will move in, with supporting fire from the Bussard group. The shelling will be moved inwards - towards the VLs - to prevent friendly fire casualties. Falke is moving out as soon as the shelling starts: Meanwhile the infantry have reached their attack positions. After half a minute of artillery fire, the whistle signal is heard- the attack commences. Sperber 1 on the assault: Very soon, the situation gets hot. Despite the heavy shelling, the Russians fight bravely.

This is supposed to be my first AAR; i hope i get the screenshots right. I don't have much time right now, so i'll be brief. I'm playing a QB on a map downloaded from the internet. The setting is June 1941, combined arms, German attack, AI +10% points. My forces are as follows: -Rifle Company -Recon platoon -2x s.MG34 HMG -1x GrW 34 81mm mortar -1x PSW 222 platoon -3x Pz IIc -1x "Big Bertha" 150mm IG + Truck -2x leIG 75mm + 2x Kübelwagen -1x 81mm FO -1x 105mm FO The forces will be divided into groups Sperber 1 and 2 (each two inf platoons), Bussard 1 and 2 (each one FO, one leIG, one s.MG. Bussard 1 gets the GrW 34, Bussard 2 the Big Bertha), and Falke (PSW and Pz II) This is the map: Much of OD's excellent maps are like this: Lots of open plain for AFV combat, and, along the flanks, trees to cover the infantry. These maps are available in the "ODmappack". My plan: The infantry will advance from both flanks and take the VLs with support from the Bussard groups. Falke platoon will join in as soon as the infantry is close enough to the enemy positions to take out possible ATGs immediately. This picture shows Sperber 2 marching: All units move out as planned. Nothing is yet heard or seen from the enemy. OG Wilberg, steering his Kübelwagen along the steppe, suddenly hears a bang: The first germans to draw real fire are OG Lederer and his HMG team of Bussard 1 group. Approaching a rocky ridge, they hear the crack of rifle fire in the distance. Bullets hit the ground and force the men into cover where they quickly prepare their MG for fire. OG Liebling, commanding Bussard 1's leIG, has already moved into position. He can see the HMG team taking cover and looks out for enemy positions. His binoculars enable him to quickly spot some enemy infantry, and he orders his men to open fire on them. Thanks to their magical ability of Borg spotting, Lederer's HMG team members localize the enemy short after Liebling and join in. The russian infantrymen thus decide it is better to keep their heads down. Meanwhile, both Sperber groups have ventured far into the forest and approach the enemy positions. Suddenly, a member of Uffz Steinbauer's group (Sperber 2, southern approach) steps onto a landmine: (I must go now, i'll continue later. Does anyone know whether the imageshack guys have problems with pictures showing swastikas?)

BTW, he was also the one to sink the Wilhelm Gustloff, a former KDF ship. My Grandmother was rescued from it. Meanwhile, the Wilhelm Gustloff tragedy is well known in germany, because Günther Grass, a (here) famous novelist, has written a book on that topic.

"In its first action during a dense winter fog, the rear turret accidentally fired into the center turret." So that's why most tanks only have one turret...

I like playing QBs on maps downloaded from the net. This way, you have the advantages of both QBs and scenarios: An excellent map and an enemy force you do not know. What i would like to know is which troop types you prefer in QBs, and which amount of points you spend on them. Playing as germans, i usually buy plain vanilla riflemen, because of their ammo amount of 50. The Panzergrenadier units have more firepower, but they're much more expensive, and their amount of ammunition is too low imho. Of course, if available, i choose Jäger 42 squads (2 smg type riflemen). Later on, the Füsilier units are very useful, but both '43 and especially '44 variants are expensive. If there's enough purchase points, i go for the Füsilier 44S company- two Füsilier 43 squads (2 smgs,1 lmg,6 k98s), one smg platoon and some organic hMGs. I almost never use Pioniere, Volksgrenadiere, Sturmkompanie or Jäger 44. Anyway, when playing germans, i try to spend as few points on the expensive infantry as possible, and rather go for the excellent german support units; hMGs and infantry guns. Often, i use the hardly historical combination of 1 inf. cpy, 2-3 hMGs and 2 75mmIGs plus AT gun(s) and an arty spotter. Even on the assault, i use lots of towed guns-two 37mm PaK can give a horde of BT-7s a hard time, and which bolshevik doesn't fear the almighty 150mmIG? Small guns can even be moved by the crew at reasonable speed. As standard AT, the PaK40 -if available- comes in handy. At long ranges, it is from my experience superiour to most tanks, whose HE shots are inaccurate at 500m+ (direct hits on the AT gun are obviously not possible in CM). The germans have useful and affordable arty; i prefer 81 and 105mm (low rarity; i play 1250p. at most) The hardest time for the germans is imho 1942, at least before the PzIVF2 becomes affordable, and late war, with lots of russian smg infantry. Talking about tanks- In 1942, i consider the short-barelled PzIII almost useless, and prefer towed guns. After that, of course, PzIV long and the occasional Tiger rule. 80mm front StuGs in 42+43 spoil the fun. In late war games, the Panther is great. But its turret is vulnerable - the JgPzIV(70) late model has a very well armoured upper hull, if you get it into a hull-down postion, it will fight off horders of T-34s. Occasionally, i purchase a Flammpanzer II or III. Playing as russians, i buy more infantry, which is cheap and effective. While smg squads are imho superiour in any terrain, i also often go for the 3-smg-types, just as recon A, 42B or 43 type; they rule at short ranges as well and have more ammo. Again, i don't use engineers. With the exception of the hMGs, the support units are excellent: Mortars have an ungodly amount of ammo, and the flamethrowers have twice the range of their german counterparts and cost half as much. They're slow, but on the defense that doesn't matter. The russian arty is the god of war: Lots of ammo and large calibers; i always buy a couple of spotters for prep barrages. (No conscripts if the other units are all medium or high quality, that's gamey) As AT, the 7,62 will suffice, and the weak side armour of german AFVs makes even the 45mm useful beyond '41 (also consider the metal shot ammo). A good amount of ATRs will render enemy lightly armoured vehicles useless. The T-34 is cheap and useful throughout the game. I don't like the IS due to its low rof. Against big cats, the SU tanks come in handy.

damn! double post.

Well, treatment of German PoWs might have been good in the west. [...] Gruß Joachim </font>

No.

Do you think this feature is maybe, to use some specific guy's favourite term, undermodeled? The only people i ever seem to take as prisoners during the course of the battle are single remaining HMG crewmen or, occasionally, a vehicle crew. If you imagine sitting in a trench, then enduring a two-hours arty barrage, then, almost deaf, spotting advancing enemy tanks, and then some enemy infantry appears 50m to your flank- i'd be the first one to raise my hands. Yet in CM dug-in infantry, even when completely supressed by artillery fire, will - as it seems to me -rarely ever surrender to advancing enemy infantry.

It's not modelled, but captured soviet ATRs where used quite a lot by the germans, until the end of the war.

I'd always prefer smg squads. PzGren just don't have enough ammo to keep the firefight up from a smg-safe distance. Besides, they're much more expensive.

I almost only play early war battles. I like those crappy AFVs, especially the T-26 with the twin machinegun turret. What I think is contributing to the fun of playing an early war scenario is that the tanks are not totally superiour as they are later on. Losing the armour duel facing some BT-7 or Pz38 in 1941 won't cause you too much trouble- the tanks' limited anti-personnel capabilities will leave you a certain chance. Also, this period's effective AT guns can still be "hand-moved" at a reasonable speed. Lose the armour duel and face some leftover T-34/85 or Tiger in 1944 and you will most likely lose the game.

Besides an AFV, you could try a 75mm IG with hollow-charge ammo (Dec '41 onwards).

Did armoured car crewmen regularly leave their vehicles on a recon mission in order to scout ahead? I'm asking because they seem not to be equipped for this infantry-style action. Wouldn't it be better if they had rifles and some kind of camouflage dresses? Then they could both cover long distances and have a cautious look over the next ridge, and needn't be accompanied by motorized infantry.

Man, those Jääkari are tough. No wonder Finland is named after their smg! Firepower is different each m distance, yet the info screen shows firepower only at certain key distances. If the enemy squad is closer than 40m, your FP rating might be bigger, though i'm not sure about that.

Blue Division, "Also, The larger the calibere, the bigger the hole [...]" that was what i meant with "contradiction". But maybe i got that wrong. "Basically one you have to shoot someone with several times to ensure they go down. The other you shoot someone with once and it is the end of the story." Well i'm pretty sure you would have to shoot me only once to make me go down- i'd even go prone if you only pointed a weapon in my general direction, that's for sure...

"Full powered rifles (or mid-powered ones as well) are much more powerful and produce a shock wave in the target that makes a mess of all the surrounding tissue." Oh my, that's a bit more information than i wanted to have... imagine that poor fellow ("the target"). Couldn't you have described it a little less doctor-style? But well, i asked for it. Yet isn't there a contradiction in your argument? After all, the smg's 9mm IS bigger than the rifle round. Of course a rifle is more powerful, but up to 100m, the 9mm might be more than enough.

I'm not sure about that, but don't you get a severe nerve shock when a bullet strikes you? Be it 9mm low velocity, 7.92mm medium velocity or 5,56mm high velocity. If it doesn't kill you, it should make you incapable of fighting any longer anyway.

Blue Division, "Why is it that you always see SMG's on civilian duty i.e. Police etc, but never with military?" Because police officers usually don't take part in 250m distance firefights... What they need is a lightweight weapon for self defence, effective in an urban area/close quarters. This area was where the infantry was fighting. With the tanks becoming more and more powerful, it was them who ruled the open terrain in ww2. The infantry was consequently driven to difficult terrain, where smgs are more useful than a rifle. Remember: In 1941, you could take out many tanks with an AT rifle at long ranges- in 1945, you needed a giant gun to do so. The perfect historical pair is soviet T-34/85 tanks with smg infantry riding on them- Extremely effective. And take a closer look at what Andreas wrote: "Volksgrenadierdivisionen were raised in two ways. One was rebuilding of shattered Grenadierdivisionen/Infanteriedivisionen - those are generally speaking the lower numbered ones. E.g. 12. VGD was built out of 12.ID." Thus, some Infantry Divisions were merely re-named to VG Divisions, and others were raised from newly drafted men. In CM, you could represent VG units with mostly regulars (representing experienced NCOs leading inexperienced draftees), some vets and some green. Also think of the almost mythical connotation the term "Volk" had for Hitler and Himmler. Giving new names (like making a "Schütze" to a "Grenadier") was also used to boost morale.

Yup, that really was bad luck... But it's always those events that remain in your memory, isn't it? Some days later, sitting in the train, one thinks "****, why didn't that f***ing gunner do a better job there?" :mad: :mad: :mad:

JasonC wrote "They get superiority for the first time when the 80mm front Pz IV long becomes standard. They keep it right to the end. The switch pretty much exactly coincides with the strategic initiative switch - which incidentally is the strongest possible proof that vehicle quality was not the cause of the outcome. (Germans win when their tanks are worse and lose when they are better - for operational and strategic reasons, not tactical ones)." Maybe it is also an indication that besides armour and main gun, speed is another important feature of a tank (on an operational level)- the early war ones were surely faster than the later heavies. Getting your tanks quickly to where the enemy is weak, avoiding his strongpoints, might be useful. Of course, in cmbb there is not much use in a PzII being quicker than a KV...

Bigduke6, i think JasonC is correct on the 50mml/60 issue. See, the penetration data of the gun makes it LOOK quite effective against T-34M41,42 and even 43 (45/65/70mm front turret); but the T-34's turret armour is sloped. Against an M41, a PzIII with 50l/60 might actually have a decent chance in a hull-down duel, but against M42 and M43, it will lose in most cases (at mid-long ranges). I have just recently played "When Worlds Collide", and the l/60s have serious trouble against the M42. About the optics- i think the german optics are mainly for faster target aquisition, except maybe late-war advanced optics (Panther etc). The T-34s main gun seems quite accurate to me. In a recent self-made scenario, i had 3 PzIIIJ(long) against a single T-34M41, all were hull down, regular experience, warm weather, distance ~530m. The 3 PzIIIs got out 6 or so shots until the T-34 fired the first time; none hit. The T-34s second shot blew up a PzIII, its 5th did as well. The last PzIII finally did a turret penetration (the third) and knocked the T-34 out. I didn't count shots and hits, but the T-34 was much more accurate than any of the PzIIIs. It is my personal impression that german 50mm long KwK accuracy isn't much greater than the russian 76,2 long's. (Same as for german infantry being inferiour. However, as i mostly play germans and shed tears for every digital man or tank lost, my opinion is surely biased) It might be interesting to find someone who evenly plays both sides and ask him. Chiavarm: A low muzzle velocity makes it hard to hit a target at long ranges, especially a moving one. Penetration, as you said, should be the same. [ March 23, 2005, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: Krautman ]