Mike D

Hi Wolfpack, Yep, for pretty much anything going up against the long barrel 88mm gun I might as well just hard code in the message, "You're DOOOOOOMED...." Mike

Hey All, I can't give you the charts, even though I'd be interested in getting a hold of them as well. However, I am working on an Armor Penetration Calculator program that will take the CM unit details data for armor and gun values and output a set of results that can be viewed to evaluate what your chances are say of your Sherman 76mm going up against that JagdPanther. I already have a preliminary user interface done and what you will be able to do is input range, hull/turret angles, and then select info you want displayed (actual armor penetration, or calculate in "reverse" to find max. effect engagement range). Hit the calculate botton and voila. All sorts of data. You get results of what potential hit by your Sherman might do against all of the exposed armor faces of the JagdPanther for both the AP and Tungsten ammo types. You also see simultaneously displayed what the JagdPanther is going to do to your lowly Shermy if it gets hit. So basically what APC will do is give you a way to make some real use of all the unit detail gun/armor info instead of trying to sit there pulling up one screen looking at the units gun data, then trying to pull up the target units details to look at its armor values, and then sitting there scratching your head trying to figure out what might happen. I've actually done this and gone through all the hand calc's and it is a tedious process. So, I can tell you having it automated would in my view be an extremely useful tool to have around. This is a project for my Masters Degree program and I'm having some trouble selling the review board on the idea that this is a worthwhile endeavor. So I would be interested in any/all feedback from you guys as to interest in having something like this done. What it would mean to you is if I get a lot of feedback that you folks want this, then I can easier convince them to accept the project and get going on it and get it done. If I cannot convince them, then I'm going to have to do something else for my project which means I'll most likely have no time to tinker w/ getting the Armor Penetration Calculator done! Which would suck because I really want to do it. So, everyone let me know what you think and how much this might help you in playing the game! Thanks. Mike aka Mikester [ 06-27-2001: Message edited by: Mike D ] [ 06-27-2001: Message edited by: Mike D ]

Hey Rune, I'm looking for what they've decided to put in as of "now". Not continued wish list items or ones they have yet to decide upon. You can't write code if you havn't made decisions. At least some decisions. Otherwise how the devil do you know what you are doing? So if they are writing code they must have decided on some of these items. No? As far as competitors go. Most of the items that I'm referring to as on "THE LIST" have already been discussed here publically, so I don't see how that is an issue. As for items that BTS has on the list that have not been discussed here, I can understand not talking about those. But then, that's not really what I'm after. Mike D aka Mikester [ 04-26-2001: Message edited by: Mike D ]

Dane, Yeah, but they had ample reason to high tail it out of there then. Tank is zeroed in on them and the gun has been destroyed. I'd run too. Mike D aka Mikester

Dane, Thanks for the post. It's good to see that some guys will stay in there and fight like real soldiers. Maybe the US 60mm mortar teams were typically all a bunch of woosies drafted from an all girls school or something. Mike D aka Mikester

Steve, Thanks for the reply and the info. Sounds like having the manual would definitely help. Guess that will be a "problem" that will be solved soon enough. Didn't know that crew's were automatically ID'd as such by the enemy. I.e. no FOW. This makes sense to prevent some of the types of tactics that I described. Guess I learn something new about this game every day. Regards, Mike D aka Mikester

I'd like to see the email process sped up as well. Maybe this can be considered for CM2? Maybe even make it so that we as the players can choose one method or the other so that where cheating might be of a concern like in tournament play the current method can be used vs. when we are playing with a friend that we "trust" (not sure exactly who this would be ) we could use the faster method. I can see Charles eye's rolling back in his head now as he lets out a groan. Oh God, now they want the option to choose how they play the email games. Yeah, and we're going to want all sorts of other stuff too. Probably won't get a lot of it, but then it never hurts to ask/suggest it. Regards, Mike D aka Mikester [This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 05-26-2000).]

Ben, If what you are saying is true, then what I've seen happen in the game would make a whole lot more sense. Maybe the disfunctional "abandoned" mortar, gun, etc., could have some better info in the display down at the bottom of the screen when you click on it. Like tell us it's "damaged", etc. Mike D aka Mikester

Chaos, You are quite correct. I believe they are regular good ole US Army grunts, not Veterans, but I could be wrong. I'm also going to have to check and see if I still have the files at home tonight to look at the actual status of the weapons. I'm almost certain that both mortars were not destroyed. Maybe there was some other info that I missed though in the unit details screen??? Can you even get one of these for an abandoned weapon? I seem to recall the answer is no. You only get the info that is on the status bar on the bottom of the screen. Another thing, after I couldn't use these perfectly good crews to reman their weapons I did use them in a quite "gamey" manner to use Mr. Clinton's terminology. I had them dash about to the far side of the map to make my opponent think that I had other forces over there to tie down more of his guys and keep him from thinking that my main attack was only along the one direction that was readily apparent to him. After getting over there I also cautiously used them to move up and do some scouting and to try to potentially draw some fire from any hidden bunkers on that side of the map so that I could rain artillery down on them. Later on one of them pulled some prisoner guard duty over there as well when some of the Germans started to surrender. If this isn't gamey (except for the guard duty part of it) vs. having the guys reman their weapons like they darn well should have been able to do then I don't know what is. Regards, Mike D aka Mikester [This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 05-26-2000).]

Scott, "But, a crew that has reached such a HIGH state of terror so as to entirely "Abandon" their weapon will NOT re-crew their weapon. These crews have ceased to operate as a viable fighting crew for the time being (what 60 minutes at most for a single battle?)" Difference noted. But I still don't agree with you completely. In VoT I had both US 60mm mortar teams take some fire on turn 1. They both crap their pants and abandon their weapons. They don't run away in terror or anything. One of them just stands there with abandoned weapon sitting right in front of them and do nothing. Other one only moves a very short distance away. First team took no casualties, second one only one (one that moved slightly away). The area is no longer under fire just a turn later, maybe two max, after this occurred. For rest of the game after that I could never get either of them to reman their weapons. Try as I might, move them right on top of the mortar, etc. Nothing, notta. OK, so they abandoned their weapons vs. just panicking. However........................ Where is the "HIGH state of terror" in this situation???????????????????????????? Where is the great threat to their lives that prevents them from acting like soldiers!??? They are no longer under fire, one of them hasn't even taken a single casualty, and they now magically "cease to operate as a viable fighting crew"? You seriously mean to tell me veteran (can't remember now if they are, or not, in VoT), or for that matter even regular troops, would not pull their act together after 5 to 10 minutes and get back in the fight? "Also, I don't think it should be REQUIRED that any crew receive casualties in order to abandon a working gun (why would they be stupid enough to wait until the first man dies if the situation is that dire?)." I didn't say that casualties should be a requirement for abandonment and would agree with you that there are certainly cases where it shouldn't be. Especially in the case of totally green troops where they might turn tail and just run away from their weapon at the first rifle shot. However as I've noted above, the "direness" of the situation was anything but, yet these guys that abandoned their weapons cannot return to reman them? This makes no logical sense to me whatsoever. Perhaps the real "problem" for lack of a better word in the situation that I encountered was that these crews should have just panicked vs. abandoning their weapons. Maybe it is a "bug" sort of thing that just needs tweaking for more experienced troops to not abandon their weapons so easily. Or, maybe there was something else going on under the game engine hood not seen by us that caused these guys to act the way they did. Bottom line though, is that what I saw in this particular case still defies what I would call normal behaviour for regular or veteran troops. To have such guys just drop their weapons and then stand around for the rest of the game with the fully functional weapon just sitting right in front of them and do nothing really makes me wonder. Regards, Mike D aka Mikester PS: Germanboy. To best of my knowledge the weapons were in no way, shape, or form damaged. When you clicked on them it certainly didn't say they were destroyed or anything. [This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 05-26-2000).]

I'm sorry, but I think this crew panic thing and then never remanning there weapon stuff is a complete bunch of B***S**T. You mean to tell me real soldiers in real combat situations would abandon there weapons and then never think of returning to re-man them 100% of the time in the heat of battle! This is completely ludicrous. There has to be some probability that they would do so. I'd go so far as to stick my stupid long neck out and guess that half of the time they would! Especially if they hadn't even taken any damn casualties yet! So instead these guys that are now perfectly fine and basically only lightly armed are waiting around for the attacker to move up on them and take them out as I've seen happen to the German crews in VoT. Or better yet as I've seen happen several times now, pull this little stunt at the beginning of the scenario and then stand around doing nothing for the next half of an hour when it is readily apparent that they could easily just crawl/move back and reman their weapon since they've taken no casualties, weapon is not destroyed, artillery is not landing in the area, etc., etc. Let's get real people. Green troops might act like this, but not seasoned veteran troops! Mikester out. [This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 05-26-2000).]

Are you on a steep portion of a hill? I know that when trying to plot moves across certain steep portions of the map in VoT that it won't let you do it. Maybe you set you tank up on one of these areas and now you can't move it off? Maybe it's a bug? Try going straight back in reverse. Or you can try using your other tank to push it free. Of course who knows, they might both get stuck then. Mikester out.

Chaos, I believe it is the later. But maybe we'll all get lucky, eh? Mikester out.

Tom, Barbed wire didn't seem to be a problem. Simply because he tried to predict my Schwerpunkt (main attack focus) and didn't guess correctly. So I saw where most of the wire was deployed (later on that is), but never actually moved my units through that area. The other thing that my friend complained about is that I did walk a couple of units through a minefield and nothing ever happened. He was not too happy, but I attribute it to being incredibly lucky. Plus some of them (not sure if it is the one he is referring to) I could see after awhile as the mine markers started to show up. I think at best I got 1 guy killed by a mine. In game I played as Ami's vs. the computer though things were different. I easily got 10-12 guys killed on mines. In one case four guys in a 12 man squad bought the farm instantly. As for wire in that one, no problem there either. Most of the wire seems to be placed somewhere in the trees, or else out in plain sight. I don't go running through woods, so I seem to always spot the stuff before actually moving across it. As a result, up to this point, I've always just gone around the stuff. Mikester out.

POSSIBLE SPOILER INFO. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK! I'm interested in this as well. I'm playing my friend right now and things have not gone well for him as the Germans. He contends that the Germans have no chance whatsoever to win this scenario. I would like to hear that he is wrong, although I have no doubts whatsoever that this is a tough one for the Wehrmacht boys. Right now I'd have to agree with him. It's turn 15 or 16, I've virtually wiped out his his entire force save for a remnant of a squad or two, schreck team or two hiding out, and a bunch of crews that is all he has left defending the final victory hill. Which I'm about to take in the next turn or so. I've taken some fair losses myself, but have all the tanks except one of the 105's that got KO'd early by the 75mm bunker. We are waiting for his reinforcements to arrive to see if he can make any headway, but it isn't looking good. Since we'll be reversing sides and starting a new game tonight, guess I'll find out first hand just how tough it will be. I'll let you know if I have any luck. In my view to this point there seem to be two main "problems" for lack of a better word with this scenario. One, US player has way too much artillery. One of the 105 spotters should be dropped and/or the fire missions for one of them should be split between the two FO's. One of the 81mm mortars should probably be dropped as well. The other thing is that the German reinforcements show up way too late to do them much good. I've already KO'd most of the entire German force and I'm sitting right on the doorstep of where the German reinforcements are going to arrive and control all the victory locations. What chance does the German player have when they get to this point and their reinforcements havn't even showed up yet? And with the agressive nature of many human opponents, this sounds like a fairly common occurence in this scenario where the US forces have already pushed all the way across the map before the Panther and his friends even arrive. Mikester out. [This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 05-24-2000).]